4 ms·

Fewer Murders, More Suicide?

14 points by alexandros 17y ago

lionhearted 17y ago
I've been reading some science lately on the different biochemistry, hormones, and mating strategies of men and women. It's fascinating stuff, and it's unfortunately somewhat suppressed from discussion these days (ex - the Harvard president being forced to resign). Anyway, the numbers and science on this is fascinating. First off, biochemistry and hormone mix changes the behavior of people in society. People with higher testosterone are more likely to do traditional "masculine" behaviors (war, chase status, take risks, etc). Now, hormonal production is somewhat cyclical in nature - whatever you're using, your body will produce more of. So men who partake in combat sports, lift weights, serve in the military, and generally act "masculine" will have higher testosterone. This also includes people to people interaction - guys regularly in fistfights or trying to dominate/refusing to submit to other people you'd expect to have higher testosterone. So a society that had less patriarchy, a less warlike nature, full integration of workplaces, and so on - you'd expect to have lower testosterone over time. You'd expect less crime and less violence in these lower testosterone societies. Then, because men aren't committing crimes or needing to defend themselves against assailants, their testosterone production would fall off more. Cyclical. Not too controversial so far? Okay. One step further - I've come to believe, from looking at numbers and research, that when men don't channel their energy into these traditional male pursuits, both genders' happiness suffers some. From my fairly casual research - I'm no expert - I think that women have a predisposition to very masculine men, and men have a predisposition to doing all our dumb guy stuff and fighting each other and racing towards being masculine. When men become less masculine, they are less happy. When men become less masculine, women are less happy. So crime goes down and society becomes more stable, but rates of depression and suicide go up. All the numbers I've looked at bear this out. That doesn't suggest a course of action - there's tradeoffs in society. Violence and crime are quite bad things, and I'd very much like to see them scrubbed out of any society I live in. But at the same time, there's some consequences to lower testosterone production in men that aren't all pleasant. It's interesting to think about these tradeoffs, but hard to have an intelligent public discussion about it these days.
- etherael 17y ago
  Somewhat interesting theory, but the article cites examples of extremely high suicide rates in nations such as the russian federation / ukraine, not exactly places known for their surfeit of androgynous men? Of course, this could be accounted for by something entirely different, such as life being simply very bad there, despite men behaving in manly ways. Men not behaving in manly ways may just be an indicator of societal happiness in general, rather than the single overriding indicator. I'm off to play with my swords.

14 points by alexandros 17y ago

I've been reading some science lately on the different biochemistry, hormones, and mating strategies of men and women. It's fascinating stuff, and it's unfortunately somewhat suppressed from discussion these days (ex - the Harvard president being forced to resign). Anyway, the numbers and science on this is fascinating. First off, biochemistry and hormone mix changes the behavior of people in society. People with higher testosterone are more likely to do traditional "masculine" behaviors (war, chase status, take risks, etc). Now, hormonal production is somewhat cyclical in nature - whatever you're using, your body will produce more of. So men who partake in combat sports, lift weights, serve in the military, and generally act "masculine" will have higher testosterone. This also includes people to people interaction - guys regularly in fistfights or trying to dominate/refusing to submit to other people you'd expect to have higher testosterone. So a society that had less patriarchy, a less warlike nature, full integration of workplaces, and so on - you'd expect to have lower testosterone over time. You'd expect less crime and less violence in these lower testosterone societies. Then, because men aren't committing crimes or needing to defend themselves against assailants, their testosterone production would fall off more. Cyclical. Not too controversial so far? Okay. One step further - I've come to believe, from looking at numbers and research, that when men don't channel their energy into these traditional male pursuits, both genders' happiness suffers some. From my fairly casual research - I'm no expert - I think that women have a predisposition to very masculine men, and men have a predisposition to doing all our dumb guy stuff and fighting each other and racing towards being masculine. When men become less masculine, they are less happy. When men become less masculine, women are less happy. So crime goes down and society becomes more stable, but rates of depression and suicide go up. All the numbers I've looked at bear this out. That doesn't suggest a course of action - there's tradeoffs in society. Violence and crime are quite bad things, and I'd very much like to see them scrubbed out of any society I live in. But at the same time, there's some consequences to lower testosterone production in men that aren't all pleasant. It's interesting to think about these tradeoffs, but hard to have an intelligent public discussion about it these days.

etherael 17y ago
Somewhat interesting theory, but the article cites examples of extremely high suicide rates in nations such as the russian federation / ukraine, not exactly places known for their surfeit of androgynous men? Of course, this could be accounted for by something entirely different, such as life being simply very bad there, despite men behaving in manly ways. Men not behaving in manly ways may just be an indicator of societal happiness in general, rather than the single overriding indicator. I'm off to play with my swords.