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>That you see yourself as being one of the "original" residents doesn't give you some inherent right to below-market-prices in property. It speaks volumes that

>That you see yourself as being one of the "original" residents doesn't give you some inherent right to below-market-prices in property. It speaks volumes that you implicitly put the rights of Russian oligarchs and Arab oil barons to buy property (which they often leave empty) above those of the working and middle classes of London. I'll come back to London when they start taxing the wealthy again. Until then I'll watch from afar as every last drip of culture and life is squeezed out of every community by rising property prices.

jstanley 12y ago
> It speaks volumes that you implicitly put the rights of Russian oligarchs and Arab oil barons to buy property (which they often leave empty) above those of the working and middle classes of London. It's not about putting anyone's rights "above" anyone else's -- whoever is willing to pay the most gets the property, that's all there is to it.
- Zarkonnen 12y ago
  So you are putting the rights of people with more money above those with less money. It's not a natural law that this is the case, it's still a political decision.
  - crdoconnor 12y ago
    It's many political decisions, including, but not limited to: * Perpetual QE * Ultra low taxes on property (council tax) * Rules that allow foreigners to buy property and not be taxed at all if they declare themselves non-resident. * Rules that allow tax evaders in foreign countries to stash their wealth here unimpeded. * Lower taxes on capital (dividends, capital gains) than labour (salaries). * A reluctance to build social housing in London.
- venomsnake 12y ago
  Not rights but interests. The brits are getting the shaft, while the rich foreigners pour their money.
  - joosters 12y ago
    Nope. If you're rich and British, you'll do just as well in the housing market as a rich foreigner.
zo1 12y ago
"(which they often leave empty)" [Citation Required] Genuinely curious.
- andyjohnson0 12y ago
  http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/25/its-like-a-ghost-town-lights-go-out-as-foreign-owners-desert-london-homes http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/25/its-like-a-gh...
- mseebach 12y ago
  There certainly exists properties (even, anecdotally, entire streets) in London that serve as wealth-deposit-assets for rich foreigners of questionable repute. Many of these are left empty as the owners aren't in the "landlord business" and merely want to hold a liquid asset (an occupied house isn't as liquid as an unoccupied one). There is also a story about the saudi royal family buying up a strip of houses on Bishop's Avenue (the most expensive street in London, despite being somewhat suburban) sometime in the 80s or 90s as a bolt hole, but IIRC recently disposed of. It's clear that this produces some pressure on the housing supply in London, but nowhere near enough to account for the sheer numerical pressure (some ~800k housing units required by 2021 and the rate of new builds is way, way off that target).
peteretep 12y ago
> It speaks volumes that you implicitly put the rights of > Russian oligarchs and Arab oil barons to buy property > (which they often leave empty) above those of the > working and middle classes of London. Sure. But if we'd been having this conversation 20 years ago, it'd have been the rights of the Yuppies above the East End families, and then 200 years ago, it would have been those wealthy landed gentry pushing out the good hard working Hugenots, and so on and so forth and you still don't seem to see the irony of bearded new media workers being priced out of the same market they were busy pricing others out of a decade ago. I'm also curious about just how many Arab Oil Barons and Russian Oligarchs you think there are, as a percentage of an 8m person city? Because right now, blaming a handful of immigrants who are buying multimillion pound properties that almost no-one else can afford smacks of racism.
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  >you still don't seem to see the irony of bearded new media workers being priced out of the same market they were busy pricing others out of a decade ago. Because there is no irony. I bitched about that too. I don't want ANYBODY priced out. >I'm also curious about just how many Arab Oil Barons and Russian Oligarchs you think there are, as a percentage of an 8m person city? One unoccupied oil baron's mansion in Central London could be demolished and replaced by affordable housing for hundreds of people. Rich people occupy more valuable space. >Because right now, blaming a handful of immigrants who are buying multimillion pound properties that almost no-one else can afford smacks of racism. I think you're confusing an understanding basic physics with racism.
  - mseebach 12y ago
    > One unoccupied oil baron's mansion in Central London could be demolished and replaced by affordable housing for hundreds of people. LOL. No. The politics of building on the greenbelt might be thorny, but it's nothing compared for what it'd be like to suggest demolishing listed regency buildings anywhere, much less central London. The best you can hope for is to replace the extremely wealthy absent foreigner with an extremely wealthy resident (foreigner or not).

jstanley 12y ago

> It speaks volumes that you implicitly put the rights of Russian oligarchs and Arab oil barons to buy property (which they often leave empty) above those of the working and middle classes of London. It's not about putting anyone's rights "above" anyone else's -- whoever is willing to pay the most gets the property, that's all there is to it.

Zarkonnen 12y ago
So you are putting the rights of people with more money above those with less money. It's not a natural law that this is the case, it's still a political decision.
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  It's many political decisions, including, but not limited to: * Perpetual QE * Ultra low taxes on property (council tax) * Rules that allow foreigners to buy property and not be taxed at all if they declare themselves non-resident. * Rules that allow tax evaders in foreign countries to stash their wealth here unimpeded. * Lower taxes on capital (dividends, capital gains) than labour (salaries). * A reluctance to build social housing in London.
venomsnake 12y ago
Not rights but interests. The brits are getting the shaft, while the rich foreigners pour their money.
- joosters 12y ago
  Nope. If you're rich and British, you'll do just as well in the housing market as a rich foreigner.

zo1 12y ago

"(which they often leave empty)" [Citation Required] Genuinely curious.

andyjohnson0 12y ago
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/25/its-like-a-ghost-town-lights-go-out-as-foreign-owners-desert-london-homes http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/25/its-like-a-gh...
mseebach 12y ago
There certainly exists properties (even, anecdotally, entire streets) in London that serve as wealth-deposit-assets for rich foreigners of questionable repute. Many of these are left empty as the owners aren't in the "landlord business" and merely want to hold a liquid asset (an occupied house isn't as liquid as an unoccupied one). There is also a story about the saudi royal family buying up a strip of houses on Bishop's Avenue (the most expensive street in London, despite being somewhat suburban) sometime in the 80s or 90s as a bolt hole, but IIRC recently disposed of. It's clear that this produces some pressure on the housing supply in London, but nowhere near enough to account for the sheer numerical pressure (some ~800k housing units required by 2021 and the rate of new builds is way, way off that target).

peteretep 12y ago

> It speaks volumes that you implicitly put the rights of > Russian oligarchs and Arab oil barons to buy property > (which they often leave empty) above those of the > working and middle classes of London. Sure. But if we'd been having this conversation 20 years ago, it'd have been the rights of the Yuppies above the East End families, and then 200 years ago, it would have been those wealthy landed gentry pushing out the good hard working Hugenots, and so on and so forth and you still don't seem to see the irony of bearded new media workers being priced out of the same market they were busy pricing others out of a decade ago. I'm also curious about just how many Arab Oil Barons and Russian Oligarchs you think there are, as a percentage of an 8m person city? Because right now, blaming a handful of immigrants who are buying multimillion pound properties that almost no-one else can afford smacks of racism.

crdoconnor 12y ago
>you still don't seem to see the irony of bearded new media workers being priced out of the same market they were busy pricing others out of a decade ago. Because there is no irony. I bitched about that too. I don't want ANYBODY priced out. >I'm also curious about just how many Arab Oil Barons and Russian Oligarchs you think there are, as a percentage of an 8m person city? One unoccupied oil baron's mansion in Central London could be demolished and replaced by affordable housing for hundreds of people. Rich people occupy more valuable space. >Because right now, blaming a handful of immigrants who are buying multimillion pound properties that almost no-one else can afford smacks of racism. I think you're confusing an understanding basic physics with racism.
- mseebach 12y ago
  > One unoccupied oil baron's mansion in Central London could be demolished and replaced by affordable housing for hundreds of people. LOL. No. The politics of building on the greenbelt might be thorny, but it's nothing compared for what it'd be like to suggest demolishing listed regency buildings anywhere, much less central London. The best you can hope for is to replace the extremely wealthy absent foreigner with an extremely wealthy resident (foreigner or not).