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Is your argument heroin is the lesser of two evils when compared to meth and thus should be legalized to at least get people off meth into something less evil l

Is your argument heroin is the lesser of two evils when compared to meth and thus should be legalized to at least get people off meth into something less evil like heroin? Sorry for the run-on-sentence but if that's your argument it sounds absurd. There was a documentary on Sky TV[0] of of a heroin addict who recorded his final two years of life. I urge to watch it if you haven't a clear idea of what life can be like for a drug addict. On a number of occasions one could see he sincerely hated the drug but couldn't control his addiction. He jumped out the window of his house during one attempt at going cold turkey and broke his foot since he was locked in the house and wanted to get some heroin. His veins collapsed due to all the injections of heroin over the years. He ultimately died of brain haemorrhage due to withdrawal symptoms in a detox facility. I don't use drugs either and when I hear people's arguments about legalizing marijuana, it makes sense in the context of a society that legalized alcoholic drinks and cigarettes. But meth and heroin are in a league of their own and I don't believe your argument makes any sense whatsoever. Lowering the bar from "the worst of all drugs" to "not as bad but you'll probably get addicted to it, may lose control of your life and possibly end up with a series of medical conditions and including death" is not acceptable. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7thZbHTvZIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7thZbHTvZIQ

scintill76 12y ago
Not that I fully agree with the post you're replying to, but to be fair, I think we should note that your anecdote comes from a world where drugs are often expensive due to laws, drug users don't receive a lot of medical help in safely and non-destructively administering the drug, counseling (to solve problems without drugs) is not always easy or affordable, and drug users are shamed and criminalized. I don't know that it would magically solve your scenario, especially as he died in a detox facility (though maybe he could have been saved if he got help earlier?) There is probably just no guaranteed safe way for some bodies/personalities to take some drugs for a prolonged period. Still, I wonder if we could uplift people on balance, if all the energy we spent on current drug policy was re-focused on helping people rather than punishing them. I am interested in that documentary, so thanks for the pointer.
andrewstuart 12y ago
My argument is not that heroin gets people off meth, because it doesn't. My argument is that heroin junkies look for a way to get high when the cops have halted the heroin supply, so the heroin junkies take meth cause it's cheap and available and thus they become meth junkies. In the nightclubs the partying folks want to get high but the cops have killed the ecstasy supply, so the party crowd try meth cause they want to have fun and get high, and become meth junkies. At the universities the students want to smoke pot and listen to (what, Pink Floyd?) but having a puff is illegal, there's no pot cause it's hard to get cause it's against the law, but hey this guy has some meth, that'll get us high, and hey, meth can't really be all that bad can it? My other argument is that drugs cost money, so how do junkies get money? They steal it, break into houses, mug people and do hold ups. Cut out the crime, just give em the drugs for free. Drugs aren't crime, they're just sad ways for lost people to try to cope. I'm advocating harm minimisation.
- xtrumanx 12y ago
  You've clarified your argument but doesn't sound like much of a difference. "Legalize drugs to get people off meth" vs "Legalize drugs or they'll get on meth" Kind of sounds like the same thing to me. Meth is messed up. We seem to agree with that. My point is heroin is also very messed up. Perhaps to a lesser degree but I do know they both horrible and it makes little sense to legalize one over the other. Considering how horrific the effects of prolonged heroin use is I can't see why it should be legalized while declaring another drug off-limits. I make no comment on marijuana since I class it differently in my head and I also make no comment on ecstasy as I virtually know nothing about its effects.
andrewstuart 12y ago
My argument is not that heroin gets people off meth, because it doesn't. My argument is that heroin junkies look for a way to get high when the cops have halted the heroin supply, so the junkies take meth and become meth junkies.

scintill76 12y ago

Not that I fully agree with the post you're replying to, but to be fair, I think we should note that your anecdote comes from a world where drugs are often expensive due to laws, drug users don't receive a lot of medical help in safely and non-destructively administering the drug, counseling (to solve problems without drugs) is not always easy or affordable, and drug users are shamed and criminalized. I don't know that it would magically solve your scenario, especially as he died in a detox facility (though maybe he could have been saved if he got help earlier?) There is probably just no guaranteed safe way for some bodies/personalities to take some drugs for a prolonged period. Still, I wonder if we could uplift people on balance, if all the energy we spent on current drug policy was re-focused on helping people rather than punishing them. I am interested in that documentary, so thanks for the pointer.

andrewstuart 12y ago

My argument is not that heroin gets people off meth, because it doesn't. My argument is that heroin junkies look for a way to get high when the cops have halted the heroin supply, so the heroin junkies take meth cause it's cheap and available and thus they become meth junkies. In the nightclubs the partying folks want to get high but the cops have killed the ecstasy supply, so the party crowd try meth cause they want to have fun and get high, and become meth junkies. At the universities the students want to smoke pot and listen to (what, Pink Floyd?) but having a puff is illegal, there's no pot cause it's hard to get cause it's against the law, but hey this guy has some meth, that'll get us high, and hey, meth can't really be all that bad can it? My other argument is that drugs cost money, so how do junkies get money? They steal it, break into houses, mug people and do hold ups. Cut out the crime, just give em the drugs for free. Drugs aren't crime, they're just sad ways for lost people to try to cope. I'm advocating harm minimisation.

xtrumanx 12y ago
You've clarified your argument but doesn't sound like much of a difference. "Legalize drugs to get people off meth" vs "Legalize drugs or they'll get on meth" Kind of sounds like the same thing to me. Meth is messed up. We seem to agree with that. My point is heroin is also very messed up. Perhaps to a lesser degree but I do know they both horrible and it makes little sense to legalize one over the other. Considering how horrific the effects of prolonged heroin use is I can't see why it should be legalized while declaring another drug off-limits. I make no comment on marijuana since I class it differently in my head and I also make no comment on ecstasy as I virtually know nothing about its effects.

andrewstuart 12y ago