4 ms·

Last I've checked java and .net were the most popular server-side languages, and they are all about costly abstractions. Dependency injection, reflection, Abstr

by ajuc 12y ago

Last I've checked java and .net were the most popular server-side languages, and they are all about costly abstractions. Dependency injection, reflection, AbstractFactoryBuilderManagerBean etc. In fact I've yet to see java server-side stacktrace that's less than 100 lines long. Usually it's more like 1000 lines, with a few RMIs inside. On the other hand, the js stacktraces I've seen (mostly hobby projects, so I may be biased) are usually less than 50 lines, often just 10 or so. Not good, but much better.

lmm 12y ago
If you compare java projects from the same era as the js projects you'll see similarity; modern java frameworks are a lot more lightweight.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  Ironically, modern JS frameworks are getting more and more enterprise-y.
  - lmm 12y ago
    I think every framework starts off lightweight and becomes heavier as time goes by.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      I'm thinking more about the patterns and structure; e.g. Angular gives off those familiar Enterprise Java vibes...
      - jackweirdy 12y ago
        That's because it was made by enterprise Java people moving to JS
  - Turbots 12y ago
    Have you seen ReactJS ? 135Kb (http://facebook.github.io/react/ http://facebook.github.io/react/) Have you seen RiotJS ? Only 6Kb (https://muut.com/riotjs/ https://muut.com/riotjs/) It's all about reiterating over your current library, throwing out what's no longer needed, refactor what is inefficient and only retain what is absolutely needed. React has already grown too much and is becoming too big, while Riot has only taken what was good in React and made it better.. If we keep doing this iteratively, we can keep any framework to a more manageable size
iopq 12y ago
Yet Java servers often come out on top in benchmarks, even beating C implementations.
- tormeh 12y ago
  The JVM is an insane thing, and with clever enough programmers a lot can be done on top of that. Were those Java servers written in standard Java, though? Because it's possible to write pretty low-level code in java if you're willing to compromise on standards compliance. Non-GC'ed, direct memory access is possible, I think.

by ajuc 12y ago

lmm 12y ago

If you compare java projects from the same era as the js projects you'll see similarity; modern java frameworks are a lot more lightweight.

TeMPOraL 12y ago
Ironically, modern JS frameworks are getting more and more enterprise-y.
- lmm 12y ago
  I think every framework starts off lightweight and becomes heavier as time goes by.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    I'm thinking more about the patterns and structure; e.g. Angular gives off those familiar Enterprise Java vibes...
    - jackweirdy 12y ago
      That's because it was made by enterprise Java people moving to JS
- Turbots 12y ago
  Have you seen ReactJS ? 135Kb (http://facebook.github.io/react/ http://facebook.github.io/react/) Have you seen RiotJS ? Only 6Kb (https://muut.com/riotjs/ https://muut.com/riotjs/) It's all about reiterating over your current library, throwing out what's no longer needed, refactor what is inefficient and only retain what is absolutely needed. React has already grown too much and is becoming too big, while Riot has only taken what was good in React and made it better.. If we keep doing this iteratively, we can keep any framework to a more manageable size

iopq 12y ago

Yet Java servers often come out on top in benchmarks, even beating C implementations.

tormeh 12y ago
The JVM is an insane thing, and with clever enough programmers a lot can be done on top of that. Were those Java servers written in standard Java, though? Because it's possible to write pretty low-level code in java if you're willing to compromise on standards compliance. Non-GC'ed, direct memory access is possible, I think.