4 ms·

It'd be interesting to see how H1B salaries compare to normal salaries, but that data probably isn't publicly available, right?

Swizec 12y ago
Exactly, I was kind of surprised that the H1B data was public in the first place. But private companies usually don't release their salary info. I don't even think public companies do.
- wooyi 12y ago
  payscale and glassdoor has some data but not publicly available. ie http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,31.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-eng...
  - nabucodonosor 12y ago
    or http://wageoffer.com http://wageoffer.com
- thisisit 12y ago
  LCA declarations filed for H1B does have salary data. It is there to stop people from exploiting immigrant workers. At least that is the official stance. I am not sure how accurate the numbers are but this site seems to have extracted info from the H1B applications: http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-sponsors/ http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-sponsors/ searchable by city. Looking up menlo park tells me, FB was the largest sponsor with median salary of 133k.
negrit 12y ago
By law, foreigners should not have a lower salary. When a company sponsor an employee for a visa, the salary is one of the criteria to check for the immigration. They should/have to make sure it match the average salary in the office location. So, if the office is in Boulder, CO instead of San Francisco then it's ok to not pay your employee $100k+. But a least 4 of the top 10 companies sponsoring for visas in the US are playing very dirty[1][2][3][4] and pay there employee a lot less than they should. And for what it's worth, most of this companies, now in trouble, are: - Exploiting cheap labor from India. - Compromising career and future opportunity of the employee they sponsor - Affecting thousands of other visa applicants workers who want to move to the US and can't due to the illegal practice of those companies. [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579167490918208338 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023045275045791674... [2] http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-04-04/news/31287764_1_gopi-vedachalam-tcs-tata-consultancy-services http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-04-04/news... [3] http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-07-20/news/29794893_1_h-1b-visa-h-1b-workers-indian-workers http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-07-20/news... [4] http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2009/db20090212_920784.htm http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2009/...
- JOnAgain 12y ago
  tldr; turnover of visa holders vs. non-visa holders should be used as the metric more than wages. Significantly lower turnover of visa holders suggests they're being exploited since those who can quit and find another job do. But this doesn't work. For many people on H1B's the visa and greencard sponsoring has tremendous value. The do depress wages, but it's because of the risk around the visas. If you have an H1B, you're less likely to work at startups -- if the company goes bust and you need to find a job fast, you're at tremendous risk of needing to leave the US. You have 4-5 weeks to get a new job, but it has to start by then. Thinking about how long interview cycles can be at some companies, 4 weeks from application to start date is challenging. Also, people getting sponsored are much less likely to leave. This should be the real metric for evaluation -- turnover. If you're on a visa, especially if you're getting sponsored for a green card, you're much less likely to quit and go to another company. You can get hired at a competitive salary, but over a few years and a few promotions you can be underpaid. To completely stereotype, I used to work with a ton of these guys at Amazon -- they're all in line for Green Cards and will not consider quitting or even complaining about things until they get it. The turnover among non-visa people is much higher.
  - negrit 12y ago
    You're less likely to get a H1B at a startup yes but it's not for the reasons you think. For a company to apply to a H1B visa they have to prove they have enough financial assets to not get bust. There are however several reasons why startups are not sponsoring H1B visas as much as they should: -It's time consuming. It really takes a lot of time, most of the immigration law firm are not startup friendly and are using old schools forms and stuff. - They are not educated on visas sponsoring. They just don't know what it takes and stuff. I'm here talking from experiences
    - aceperry 12y ago
      I wonder how that affects pg's views on allowing more H1B workers. (http://www.paulgraham.com/95.html http://www.paulgraham.com/95.html) The H1B program doesn't really help or address the need by startups for qualified employees.
kelukelugames 12y ago
Legally it should be the same. But in reality foreign workers have way less leverage when negotiating.
ild 12y ago
Many, many Indians come in on L1/B1/tourism visa and work completely illegally.Or may be politely asked to return a bit of money on coming back to India.
- cesarbs 12y ago
  L1 is a work visa for company transfers.
  - ild 12y ago
    Right. But there is no requirements for wage, nor caps; so it is technically legal, but should not be.

Swizec 12y ago

Exactly, I was kind of surprised that the H1B data was public in the first place. But private companies usually don't release their salary info. I don't even think public companies do.

wooyi 12y ago
payscale and glassdoor has some data but not publicly available. ie http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,31.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-eng...
- nabucodonosor 12y ago
  or http://wageoffer.com http://wageoffer.com
thisisit 12y ago
LCA declarations filed for H1B does have salary data. It is there to stop people from exploiting immigrant workers. At least that is the official stance. I am not sure how accurate the numbers are but this site seems to have extracted info from the H1B applications: http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-sponsors/ http://redbus2us.com/h1b-visa-sponsors/ searchable by city. Looking up menlo park tells me, FB was the largest sponsor with median salary of 133k.

negrit 12y ago

By law, foreigners should not have a lower salary. When a company sponsor an employee for a visa, the salary is one of the criteria to check for the immigration. They should/have to make sure it match the average salary in the office location. So, if the office is in Boulder, CO instead of San Francisco then it's ok to not pay your employee $100k+. But a least 4 of the top 10 companies sponsoring for visas in the US are playing very dirty[1][2][3][4] and pay there employee a lot less than they should. And for what it's worth, most of this companies, now in trouble, are: - Exploiting cheap labor from India. - Compromising career and future opportunity of the employee they sponsor - Affecting thousands of other visa applicants workers who want to move to the US and can't due to the illegal practice of those companies. [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579167490918208338 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023045275045791674... [2] http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-04-04/news/31287764_1_gopi-vedachalam-tcs-tata-consultancy-services http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-04-04/news... [3] http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-07-20/news/29794893_1_h-1b-visa-h-1b-workers-indian-workers http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-07-20/news... [4] http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2009/db20090212_920784.htm http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2009/...

JOnAgain 12y ago
tldr; turnover of visa holders vs. non-visa holders should be used as the metric more than wages. Significantly lower turnover of visa holders suggests they're being exploited since those who can quit and find another job do. But this doesn't work. For many people on H1B's the visa and greencard sponsoring has tremendous value. The do depress wages, but it's because of the risk around the visas. If you have an H1B, you're less likely to work at startups -- if the company goes bust and you need to find a job fast, you're at tremendous risk of needing to leave the US. You have 4-5 weeks to get a new job, but it has to start by then. Thinking about how long interview cycles can be at some companies, 4 weeks from application to start date is challenging. Also, people getting sponsored are much less likely to leave. This should be the real metric for evaluation -- turnover. If you're on a visa, especially if you're getting sponsored for a green card, you're much less likely to quit and go to another company. You can get hired at a competitive salary, but over a few years and a few promotions you can be underpaid. To completely stereotype, I used to work with a ton of these guys at Amazon -- they're all in line for Green Cards and will not consider quitting or even complaining about things until they get it. The turnover among non-visa people is much higher.
- negrit 12y ago
  You're less likely to get a H1B at a startup yes but it's not for the reasons you think. For a company to apply to a H1B visa they have to prove they have enough financial assets to not get bust. There are however several reasons why startups are not sponsoring H1B visas as much as they should: -It's time consuming. It really takes a lot of time, most of the immigration law firm are not startup friendly and are using old schools forms and stuff. - They are not educated on visas sponsoring. They just don't know what it takes and stuff. I'm here talking from experiences
  - aceperry 12y ago
    I wonder how that affects pg's views on allowing more H1B workers. (http://www.paulgraham.com/95.html http://www.paulgraham.com/95.html) The H1B program doesn't really help or address the need by startups for qualified employees.

kelukelugames 12y ago

Legally it should be the same. But in reality foreign workers have way less leverage when negotiating.

ild 12y ago

Many, many Indians come in on L1/B1/tourism visa and work completely illegally.Or may be politely asked to return a bit of money on coming back to India.

cesarbs 12y ago
L1 is a work visa for company transfers.
- ild 12y ago
  Right. But there is no requirements for wage, nor caps; so it is technically legal, but should not be.