4 ms·

We're just bad drivers in general, regardless of our level of intoxication. Texting. Dancing (I see this frequently). The number of elderly people who drive w

by Zelphyr 12y ago

We're just bad drivers in general, regardless of our level of intoxication. Texting. Dancing (I see this frequently). The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. I'm of a mind that its actually way too easy to obtain a drivers license in this country. For example; my mother took my uncle to get his drivers license renewed. Why she did is beyond me because he has early stage dementia. He couldn't understand the written test so the lady at the DMV just had my mom fill it out for him! Not even our own government cares whether we're qualified to drive!

DanBC 12y ago
> The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. Is this supported by any research? Road traffic accident statistics show too many young people. So, older people might be safer drivers. Of course, there are a few people with dementia or visual impairment who shouldn't be driving but it's interesting that it's ok to suggest that older people are risky drivers when that doesn't appear to be true.
- Retric 12y ago
  Older drivers (85+) are generally extremely risky per mile. "On the per-mile basis, the death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly triple that of drivers aged 16 to 17" https://aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/OlderDriverRisk.pdf https://aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/OlderDriverRis... They drive fewer miles, but even still their far more risky than teenagers. "The per-driver death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly double that of target drivers aged 16 to 17 (Rate Ratio [RR] 1.93, 95% Confidence Interval [CI] 1.66–2.24) and is over six times that of drivers aged 50 to 59 (RR 6.25, CI 5.48–7.14)." Also of note, new drivers of any age are generally more risky than experienced ones of that same age. So, a large chunk of the teenage hit would happen even if you banned people <20 from driving.
  - digikata 12y ago
    I'm not sure about your takeaway from that link. In the Summary: "For example, the results of this study suggest that if a randomly-selected driver in his or thirties and a randomly-selected driver aged 85 or older were to drive equal numbers of miles, the older driver would be over 1500% more likely than the younger driver to be responsible for and die as a result of a crash, and about 220% more likely than the younger driver to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist. However, drivers in their thirties drive approximately 217% more miles on average than drivers aged 85 and older do. Without statistical adjustment for what occurs naturally, a randomly-selected driver aged 85 or older is about 720% more likely than a randomly selected driver aged 30 to 39 to die in a crash, but only about 0.8% more likely to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist, over the course of a year." I haven't gone back to review what the author means exactly by "statistical adjustment for what occurs naturally"
    - Retric 12y ago
      These statistics get very tricky as older people are more likely to die in an identical crash causing identical trauma. Older drivers drive at different times of day, have different passenger profiles, and drive different cars. However, in the end 85+ year old drivers are simply less safe than 16 year old drivers. The issue is quantifying how much less safe they are.
      - digikata 12y ago
        I guess I am confused then about the statement that "[Seniors 85+ are] only about 0.8% more likely to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist, over the course of a year." Through some sort of statistical interpretation.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Thank you! That changed my mind.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    I was in the vehicle with a new 30 something driver when they made a large input to the wrong pedal and put the vehicle through a wall. Ford F-150 had some minor damage to the bumper, the brick wall had major damage for the width of the vehicle (I think any modern pickup would fair similarly).
- freehunter 12y ago
  Old people are more accident prone than middle-aged drivers, and the numbers back that up. However, young drivers are just as likely to be involved in a fatal accident as old drivers. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/10/teenagers-and-older-people-are-the-riskiest-drivers/index.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/10/teenager...
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
  Accidents per road mile has to be off the chart. Most of the time the accidents are minor, but not always. >but it's interesting that it's ok to suggest that older people are risky drivers when that doesn't appear to be true. Ageing impairs one's ability to drive. It's not controversial because our bodies break as we age. Everyone knows that.
jrells 12y ago
I would question the claim that Americans are bad drivers in general. Compared to driving I've seen in other countries (particularly India, China), even the worst drivers I've seen in America aren't so bad. And the worst drivers in America I know personally are not actually Americans but internationals. Maybe we are generally worse compared to other western countries but my experience suggests the prevalence of driving in America puts our skills among the best. If someone has data which suggests otherwise please share.
- guelo 12y ago
  There are different driving cultures and becoming proficient in one style might look like bad driving to someone from another culture.
  - maw 12y ago
    The amount of damaged cars and stationary objects and injured people in bad-driving countries belies that particular nugget of cultural relativism.
    - guelo 12y ago
      Is cross-country crash data available?
  - jrells 12y ago
    True, this certainly skews my impression of driving in other countries. However, some of the examples I recall can not possibly be good driving in any culture (like making a ten point U-turn when there is ample room to make a single turn, or failing to park in a large spot after several attempts).
- dejawu 12y ago
  I'd definitely say American drivers, as a whole, are less prepared for and take too lightly the responsibility of driving a car. It is far too easy to get a license in this country: My test consisted of me, at sixteen years old, going around a suburban block with very little traffic at about 35 miles an hour, followed by a brief parallel parking test (a test I consider far less relevant than, say, being able to merge on a busy freeway at high speed). To qualify for this test, I only had to purchase an online driving course and fill out forms claiming that my parents had been me with me while I drove - none of which required time with a trained instructor. Contrast this with China - one of the countries that you listed as an example of having bad drivers - where to obtain a license you need to pay the equivalent of a few thousand USD for a rigorous driving course in an isolated area (you can't even drive on the road before you have your license; learner's licenses do not permit you to drive on public roads). After this, you are still under some limitations until a year after you've obtained the license. In addition to this, the more aggressive driving culture of China involves many more vehicles jostling for smaller spaces than would be the case in America. The skill and spatial awareness of the vehicle necessary to cope with this sort of environment is far greater than that needed to deal with even the most demanding driving environments of America. We are definitely more laid-back and polite in driving than China (and I would prefer that any day) but more skillful? I highly doubt that.

by Zelphyr 12y ago

DanBC 12y ago

> The number of elderly people who drive who shouldn't be is mind boggling. Is this supported by any research? Road traffic accident statistics show too many young people. So, older people might be safer drivers. Of course, there are a few people with dementia or visual impairment who shouldn't be driving but it's interesting that it's ok to suggest that older people are risky drivers when that doesn't appear to be true.

Retric 12y ago
Older drivers (85+) are generally extremely risky per mile. "On the per-mile basis, the death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly triple that of drivers aged 16 to 17" https://aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/OlderDriverRisk.pdf https://aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/OlderDriverRis... They drive fewer miles, but even still their far more risky than teenagers. "The per-driver death rate of target drivers aged 85 and older is nearly double that of target drivers aged 16 to 17 (Rate Ratio [RR] 1.93, 95% Confidence Interval [CI] 1.66–2.24) and is over six times that of drivers aged 50 to 59 (RR 6.25, CI 5.48–7.14)." Also of note, new drivers of any age are generally more risky than experienced ones of that same age. So, a large chunk of the teenage hit would happen even if you banned people <20 from driving.
- digikata 12y ago
  I'm not sure about your takeaway from that link. In the Summary: "For example, the results of this study suggest that if a randomly-selected driver in his or thirties and a randomly-selected driver aged 85 or older were to drive equal numbers of miles, the older driver would be over 1500% more likely than the younger driver to be responsible for and die as a result of a crash, and about 220% more likely than the younger driver to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist. However, drivers in their thirties drive approximately 217% more miles on average than drivers aged 85 and older do. Without statistical adjustment for what occurs naturally, a randomly-selected driver aged 85 or older is about 720% more likely than a randomly selected driver aged 30 to 39 to die in a crash, but only about 0.8% more likely to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist, over the course of a year." I haven't gone back to review what the author means exactly by "statistical adjustment for what occurs naturally"
  - Retric 12y ago
    These statistics get very tricky as older people are more likely to die in an identical crash causing identical trauma. Older drivers drive at different times of day, have different passenger profiles, and drive different cars. However, in the end 85+ year old drivers are simply less safe than 16 year old drivers. The issue is quantifying how much less safe they are.
    - digikata 12y ago
      I guess I am confused then about the statement that "[Seniors 85+ are] only about 0.8% more likely to kill an occupant of another vehicle or a non-motorist, over the course of a year." Through some sort of statistical interpretation.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Thank you! That changed my mind.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  I was in the vehicle with a new 30 something driver when they made a large input to the wrong pedal and put the vehicle through a wall. Ford F-150 had some minor damage to the bumper, the brick wall had major damage for the width of the vehicle (I think any modern pickup would fair similarly).
freehunter 12y ago
Old people are more accident prone than middle-aged drivers, and the numbers back that up. However, young drivers are just as likely to be involved in a fatal accident as old drivers. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/10/teenagers-and-older-people-are-the-riskiest-drivers/index.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/10/teenager...
fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
Accidents per road mile has to be off the chart. Most of the time the accidents are minor, but not always. >but it's interesting that it's ok to suggest that older people are risky drivers when that doesn't appear to be true. Ageing impairs one's ability to drive. It's not controversial because our bodies break as we age. Everyone knows that.

jrells 12y ago

I would question the claim that Americans are bad drivers in general. Compared to driving I've seen in other countries (particularly India, China), even the worst drivers I've seen in America aren't so bad. And the worst drivers in America I know personally are not actually Americans but internationals. Maybe we are generally worse compared to other western countries but my experience suggests the prevalence of driving in America puts our skills among the best. If someone has data which suggests otherwise please share.

guelo 12y ago
There are different driving cultures and becoming proficient in one style might look like bad driving to someone from another culture.
- maw 12y ago
  The amount of damaged cars and stationary objects and injured people in bad-driving countries belies that particular nugget of cultural relativism.
  - guelo 12y ago
    Is cross-country crash data available?
- jrells 12y ago
  True, this certainly skews my impression of driving in other countries. However, some of the examples I recall can not possibly be good driving in any culture (like making a ten point U-turn when there is ample room to make a single turn, or failing to park in a large spot after several attempts).
dejawu 12y ago
I'd definitely say American drivers, as a whole, are less prepared for and take too lightly the responsibility of driving a car. It is far too easy to get a license in this country: My test consisted of me, at sixteen years old, going around a suburban block with very little traffic at about 35 miles an hour, followed by a brief parallel parking test (a test I consider far less relevant than, say, being able to merge on a busy freeway at high speed). To qualify for this test, I only had to purchase an online driving course and fill out forms claiming that my parents had been me with me while I drove - none of which required time with a trained instructor. Contrast this with China - one of the countries that you listed as an example of having bad drivers - where to obtain a license you need to pay the equivalent of a few thousand USD for a rigorous driving course in an isolated area (you can't even drive on the road before you have your license; learner's licenses do not permit you to drive on public roads). After this, you are still under some limitations until a year after you've obtained the license. In addition to this, the more aggressive driving culture of China involves many more vehicles jostling for smaller spaces than would be the case in America. The skill and spatial awareness of the vehicle necessary to cope with this sort of environment is far greater than that needed to deal with even the most demanding driving environments of America. We are definitely more laid-back and polite in driving than China (and I would prefer that any day) but more skillful? I highly doubt that.