3 ms·

It's also not hacking. Viewing page source and navigating to a URL which is clearly visible is not subversive in any way.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
Burning Man and TicketFly disagree, hence why they're revoking tickets.
Shivetya 12y ago
By whose definition? So if a site has elements on a page they do not want to be immediately seen their only choice is to not distribute the content? So if your circumventing a script that is not the same as circumventing a program? I look at this way, if it does not occur to the common user to do so then it is "hacking". Not in any nefarious/sinister sense but the term still should apply.
- edwintorok 12y ago
  If it is true that people visiting with Noscript or javascript disabled would see the button immediately then it is a design flaw of the ticketing system, not hacking. At least they should've used javascript to generate the link and show it as opposed to hiding it on page load.
  - fWnApHU2PY6CPA 12y ago
    Full disclosure, I don't mean to present the Noscript/Disabled Javascript comment as fact – I read that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_cheat_the_system_with_the_hidden_link/corv4g9 https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_... EDIT: Typo
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  Never trust the client or the data they send. Talk about a rookie mistake.
- mindslight 12y ago
  > if it does not occur to the common user to do so then it is "hacking". This is the path to madness (and it's the one the "justice" system is on). Adblock? Hacking. Network connection blipped? Hacking. Using a new browser that better protects your privacy? Hacking. Changing number in URL? Hacking. Using a VPN? Hacking. Leaving page open for months in a forgotten tab? Hacking. Running any program that isn't a web browser? Hacking. If our society is to have a digital future, the only sane definition is congruent to ownership and control - your computer functions wholly as your agent, and their server functions as theirs. Servers must be properly configured to enforce the desired business rules, and not doing so means different business rules are in effect.
- Torgo 12y ago
  I'm going with "plausible deniability." I have done this by accident by using a site with Javascript turned off (heck, I have coded something like this.) That's what happens when your code relies on client-side behavior that's not guaranteed.
onion2k 12y ago
It's certainly not in the spirit of the competition to get tickets. Just because the "inside knowledge" necessary to exploit the game is exceptionally simple doesn't make it OK to use it to your advantage, at least if you believe in fairness and equality.
- criley2 12y ago
  The spirit of competition was wrecked by the choice to use client side time instead of server side time. Would you run a race where every runner gets to choose when to begin? Because that's what this is: A race without a central time authority. A race where each racer begins when his personal clock strikes "go". Spirit of competition requires a fair playing field as a foundation, so there was no spirit of competition possible. (NoScript also isn't against the 'spirit of competition'. If you want to ban a faster less-friction-causing swim suit, you have to ban it. You can't retroactively define the rules of competing!) (Edit: Also, inventing rules of competition that aren't official rules to limit yourself to what you may consider 'honor' is called scrub logic. Play the game-- not your game, but rather the game as it exists with rules that are defined. If the rules aren't good enough, it's not the players fault).

toomuchtodo 12y ago

Burning Man and TicketFly disagree, hence why they're revoking tickets.

Shivetya 12y ago

By whose definition? So if a site has elements on a page they do not want to be immediately seen their only choice is to not distribute the content? So if your circumventing a script that is not the same as circumventing a program? I look at this way, if it does not occur to the common user to do so then it is "hacking". Not in any nefarious/sinister sense but the term still should apply.

edwintorok 12y ago
If it is true that people visiting with Noscript or javascript disabled would see the button immediately then it is a design flaw of the ticketing system, not hacking. At least they should've used javascript to generate the link and show it as opposed to hiding it on page load.
- fWnApHU2PY6CPA 12y ago
  Full disclosure, I don't mean to present the Noscript/Disabled Javascript comment as fact – I read that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_cheat_the_system_with_the_hidden_link/corv4g9 https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_... EDIT: Typo
blueskin_ 12y ago
Never trust the client or the data they send. Talk about a rookie mistake.
mindslight 12y ago
> if it does not occur to the common user to do so then it is "hacking". This is the path to madness (and it's the one the "justice" system is on). Adblock? Hacking. Network connection blipped? Hacking. Using a new browser that better protects your privacy? Hacking. Changing number in URL? Hacking. Using a VPN? Hacking. Leaving page open for months in a forgotten tab? Hacking. Running any program that isn't a web browser? Hacking. If our society is to have a digital future, the only sane definition is congruent to ownership and control - your computer functions wholly as your agent, and their server functions as theirs. Servers must be properly configured to enforce the desired business rules, and not doing so means different business rules are in effect.
Torgo 12y ago
I'm going with "plausible deniability." I have done this by accident by using a site with Javascript turned off (heck, I have coded something like this.) That's what happens when your code relies on client-side behavior that's not guaranteed.

onion2k 12y ago

It's certainly not in the spirit of the competition to get tickets. Just because the "inside knowledge" necessary to exploit the game is exceptionally simple doesn't make it OK to use it to your advantage, at least if you believe in fairness and equality.

criley2 12y ago
The spirit of competition was wrecked by the choice to use client side time instead of server side time. Would you run a race where every runner gets to choose when to begin? Because that's what this is: A race without a central time authority. A race where each racer begins when his personal clock strikes "go". Spirit of competition requires a fair playing field as a foundation, so there was no spirit of competition possible. (NoScript also isn't against the 'spirit of competition'. If you want to ban a faster less-friction-causing swim suit, you have to ban it. You can't retroactively define the rules of competing!) (Edit: Also, inventing rules of competition that aren't official rules to limit yourself to what you may consider 'honor' is called scrub logic. Play the game-- not your game, but rather the game as it exists with rules that are defined. If the rules aren't good enough, it's not the players fault).