4 ms·

Thats not accidental.

fWnApHU2PY6CPA 12y ago
We had no desire to gain any advantage in the line or 'game the system' in any way. We were simply curious how the line worked.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  > We were simply curious how the line worked. I don't mean to be rude, but curiosity would've been viewing the source. Dropping into the queue early is when it got shady. Apologies if you lose your tickets, but it seems the fair way to handle the situation.
  - kordless 12y ago
    > Dropping into the queue early is when it got shady My suggestion? Don't put your queue in my computer.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      It doesn't matter if their technical solution wasn't perfect. It was good enough, and those who bypassed it (whatever their motives) showed up in the logs. Seems like it worked just fine. That's the problem with the HN bubble. We seem to think everyone should come up with the perfect solution, when good enough carries the day.
      - fWnApHU2PY6CPA 12y ago
        Taking myself out of the equation then, since I understand that my actions may be construed as a gray area. If it turns out to be true that users with incorrectly set system clocks and users with javascript disabled accidentally cut the line, are they hackers? Should they have their tickets revoked?
        toomuchtodo 12y ago
        As someone who has been in your shoes, I'm saying you're very much not a "hacker". You found a front-end weakness, exploited it, but the repercussions (if any) should be minor (ie tickets being kicked into the next sale for those who jumped the line). In the grand scheme of things, this is as minor of an issue as it comes.
      - dpark 12y ago
        > It was good enough Obviously not.
        toomuchtodo 12y ago
        Violators were detected and dealt with. Obviously it was.
        dpark 12y ago
        Right. I'm sure everyone who failed to get a ticket feels like that totally resolves the issue. No one could possibly still feel cheated.
        toomuchtodo 12y ago
        Justice isn't perfect. Again, good enough. Can't make everyone happy when demand overwhelms supply.
- derekp7 12y ago
  It sounds like, from your description, that if your system clock was running fast that would have also exposed the purchase button early. Can you tell if that's the case by looking at the source? If so, sounds like you have plausible deniability.
frogpelt 12y ago
It's also not hacking. Viewing page source and navigating to a URL which is clearly visible is not subversive in any way.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Burning Man and TicketFly disagree, hence why they're revoking tickets.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  By whose definition? So if a site has elements on a page they do not want to be immediately seen their only choice is to not distribute the content? So if your circumventing a script that is not the same as circumventing a program? I look at this way, if it does not occur to the common user to do so then it is "hacking". Not in any nefarious/sinister sense but the term still should apply.
  - edwintorok 12y ago
    If it is true that people visiting with Noscript or javascript disabled would see the button immediately then it is a design flaw of the ticketing system, not hacking. At least they should've used javascript to generate the link and show it as opposed to hiding it on page load.
    - fWnApHU2PY6CPA 12y ago
      Full disclosure, I don't mean to present the Noscript/Disabled Javascript comment as fact – I read that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_cheat_the_system_with_the_hidden_link/corv4g9 https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_... EDIT: Typo
  - blueskin_ 12y ago
    Never trust the client or the data they send. Talk about a rookie mistake.
  - mindslight 12y ago

We had no desire to gain any advantage in the line or 'game the system' in any way. We were simply curious how the line worked.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
> We were simply curious how the line worked. I don't mean to be rude, but curiosity would've been viewing the source. Dropping into the queue early is when it got shady. Apologies if you lose your tickets, but it seems the fair way to handle the situation.
- kordless 12y ago
  > Dropping into the queue early is when it got shady My suggestion? Don't put your queue in my computer.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    It doesn't matter if their technical solution wasn't perfect. It was good enough, and those who bypassed it (whatever their motives) showed up in the logs. Seems like it worked just fine. That's the problem with the HN bubble. We seem to think everyone should come up with the perfect solution, when good enough carries the day.
    - fWnApHU2PY6CPA 12y ago
      Taking myself out of the equation then, since I understand that my actions may be construed as a gray area. If it turns out to be true that users with incorrectly set system clocks and users with javascript disabled accidentally cut the line, are they hackers? Should they have their tickets revoked?
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        As someone who has been in your shoes, I'm saying you're very much not a "hacker". You found a front-end weakness, exploited it, but the repercussions (if any) should be minor (ie tickets being kicked into the next sale for those who jumped the line). In the grand scheme of things, this is as minor of an issue as it comes.
    - dpark 12y ago
      > It was good enough Obviously not.
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        Violators were detected and dealt with. Obviously it was.
        dpark 12y ago
        Right. I'm sure everyone who failed to get a ticket feels like that totally resolves the issue. No one could possibly still feel cheated.
        toomuchtodo 12y ago
        Justice isn't perfect. Again, good enough. Can't make everyone happy when demand overwhelms supply.
derekp7 12y ago
It sounds like, from your description, that if your system clock was running fast that would have also exposed the purchase button early. Can you tell if that's the case by looking at the source? If so, sounds like you have plausible deniability.

frogpelt 12y ago

It's also not hacking. Viewing page source and navigating to a URL which is clearly visible is not subversive in any way.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
Burning Man and TicketFly disagree, hence why they're revoking tickets.
Shivetya 12y ago
By whose definition? So if a site has elements on a page they do not want to be immediately seen their only choice is to not distribute the content? So if your circumventing a script that is not the same as circumventing a program? I look at this way, if it does not occur to the common user to do so then it is "hacking". Not in any nefarious/sinister sense but the term still should apply.
- edwintorok 12y ago
  If it is true that people visiting with Noscript or javascript disabled would see the button immediately then it is a design flaw of the ticketing system, not hacking. At least they should've used javascript to generate the link and show it as opposed to hiding it on page load.
  - fWnApHU2PY6CPA 12y ago
    Full disclosure, I don't mean to present the Noscript/Disabled Javascript comment as fact – I read that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_cheat_the_system_with_the_hidden_link/corv4g9 https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/2wieta/did_you_... EDIT: Typo
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  Never trust the client or the data they send. Talk about a rookie mistake.
- mindslight 12y ago