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Huh. I didn't know that about Fedora. I admit I don't keep up with the Red Hat world as much as I should. So, apparently systemd has been in production distros

by ReidZB 12y ago

Huh. I didn't know that about Fedora. I admit I don't keep up with the Red Hat world as much as I should. So, apparently systemd has been in production distros for, what, four or five years now? I don't remember the systemd transition in Arch being too bad, though it was sort of rough around the edges. I guess that roughness is why (mentally) I hadn't expected anyone to have adopted systemd before Arch.

zanny 12y ago
It wasn't even bad on Fedora, it was in rawhide for over a year being worked on before entering Fedora 15, albeit they transitioned from upstart to systemd, which I'd think is a lot less significant a transition than from sysv to systemd.
- digi_owl 12y ago
  Also, systemd has really "grown" over the years. Adopting systemd when it was just about handing services was one thing. But now it does networking (firewall management included), job scheduling, and more. It is almost as if you can see the frog slowly boiling...
  - zanny 12y ago
    It was devastatingly bad for desktop consistency to have networkmanager not be default on so many distros for so long. It made writing GUI network managers a tremendous PITA. And nobody is even shipping a distro with networkd as the only network daemon. They are all still using networkmanager. I doubt anyone will switch any time soon either, since the faculties of networkd are a lot more limited. And I'm wondering how a project that is meant to encompass a common base userspace OS is boiling anyone by adopting things like network management into it. That seems pretty base OS nowadays to me. I'll worry if once everyone is on systemd we start getting horror stories of the upstream systemd developers blocking contributions and fixes because they conflict with what they want in the project (a la Gnome, not like KDE).
    - digi_owl 12y ago
      1. I wonder how many "disable networkmanager" comments i have seen around the net in relation to fixing some networking issue. Seems to be up there with Pulseaudio... 2. It would really surprise me if networkmanager finds itself being anything more than a frontend for networkd within a year or two. At this point in time i am starting to think that going back to pre-freedesktop Linux may be better for my ulcer than trying to keep up with the desktop (developers) uber alles threadmill.

by ReidZB 12y ago

zanny 12y ago

It wasn't even bad on Fedora, it was in rawhide for over a year being worked on before entering Fedora 15, albeit they transitioned from upstart to systemd, which I'd think is a lot less significant a transition than from sysv to systemd.

digi_owl 12y ago
Also, systemd has really "grown" over the years. Adopting systemd when it was just about handing services was one thing. But now it does networking (firewall management included), job scheduling, and more. It is almost as if you can see the frog slowly boiling...
- zanny 12y ago
  It was devastatingly bad for desktop consistency to have networkmanager not be default on so many distros for so long. It made writing GUI network managers a tremendous PITA. And nobody is even shipping a distro with networkd as the only network daemon. They are all still using networkmanager. I doubt anyone will switch any time soon either, since the faculties of networkd are a lot more limited. And I'm wondering how a project that is meant to encompass a common base userspace OS is boiling anyone by adopting things like network management into it. That seems pretty base OS nowadays to me. I'll worry if once everyone is on systemd we start getting horror stories of the upstream systemd developers blocking contributions and fixes because they conflict with what they want in the project (a la Gnome, not like KDE).
  - digi_owl 12y ago
    1. I wonder how many "disable networkmanager" comments i have seen around the net in relation to fixing some networking issue. Seems to be up there with Pulseaudio... 2. It would really surprise me if networkmanager finds itself being anything more than a frontend for networkd within a year or two. At this point in time i am starting to think that going back to pre-freedesktop Linux may be better for my ulcer than trying to keep up with the desktop (developers) uber alles threadmill.