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Lets hope the judge chooses the side of Lenovo, It would be devastating if windows/gnu/linux/apple gets sued every time they have a security flaw in a product.

madaxe_again 12y ago
When were you last sold a machine with Linux and spyware pre-loaded? Right, never.
- MisterNegative 12y ago
  Ubuntu
  - iopq 12y ago
    Which is why people shouldn't use Ubuntu and vendors shouldn't pre-install it.
  - skuhn 12y ago
    The difference between Lenovo's use of Superfish and Ubuntu providing anonymized search data to Amazon is night and day in terms of "spyware". I don't like either, but Lenovo's actions were negligent to the point where they have exposed themselves to a justified lawsuit -- Ubuntu did not.
  - madaxe_again 12y ago
    You bought a machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded?
    - iagooar 12y ago
      Does it look strange to you? Have seen this a lot these days, at least in the EU.
    - dagw 12y ago
      Not personally, but it's not like they're that hard to find.
      - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
        Citation Needed. I live in the Bay Area, and cannot find an x86 laptop with desktop Linux preinstalled at Central Computers, Frys or Best Buy. Is System 76 what you mean, or ordering online from Dell for the XPS 13? Because that is not my definition of easy, certainly not compared to walking into a retail store.
        dagw 12y ago
        Thinking mainly of System 76 and the dozens of other similar companies around the world. Sure not quite as easy as walking into a retail store, but on the other hand I don't know anybody who bought their (non-Apple) laptop at a retail store.
        joshuapants 12y ago
        Ordering something online is far easier than going to a retail store. I can drive for a few minutes to get to a Best Buy, look around to see if what I want is in stock, tell the salesperson who has been hounding me for the past 10 minutes that I'd like to buy it, wait in line at the register, then drive home or I can go online and be done with it in a few clicks.
gambiting 12y ago
....what? "windows/gnu/linux/apple" - what does any of these companies/products have to do with this? Lenovo put its customers at risk, if a judge sided with them it would be atrocious.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
onion2k 12y ago
There's a significant difference between Superfish, an intentionally installed application that deliberately mitigated security features in browsers to inject ads, and a security flaw that arose from poor design or a lack of good QA process. The latter are sloppy but ultimately an inevitable part of complex design; the former is an obnoxious lack of respect for your customer that deserves a serious penalty in damages and a complete reset of your brand's goodwill. That said, I think there's an argument that customers being in a position to sue over security flaws might not be such a bad thing. It might push companies to make security and privacy important features rather than second-class add-ons.
- MisterNegative 12y ago
  Any argument you make will contradict itself, because you make it a subjective matter. So choosing superfish could be seen as a lack of good QA process.

madaxe_again 12y ago

When were you last sold a machine with Linux and spyware pre-loaded? Right, never.

MisterNegative 12y ago
Ubuntu
- iopq 12y ago
  Which is why people shouldn't use Ubuntu and vendors shouldn't pre-install it.
- skuhn 12y ago
  The difference between Lenovo's use of Superfish and Ubuntu providing anonymized search data to Amazon is night and day in terms of "spyware". I don't like either, but Lenovo's actions were negligent to the point where they have exposed themselves to a justified lawsuit -- Ubuntu did not.
- madaxe_again 12y ago
  You bought a machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded?
  - iagooar 12y ago
    Does it look strange to you? Have seen this a lot these days, at least in the EU.
  - dagw 12y ago
    Not personally, but it's not like they're that hard to find.
    - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
      Citation Needed. I live in the Bay Area, and cannot find an x86 laptop with desktop Linux preinstalled at Central Computers, Frys or Best Buy. Is System 76 what you mean, or ordering online from Dell for the XPS 13? Because that is not my definition of easy, certainly not compared to walking into a retail store.
      - dagw 12y ago
        Thinking mainly of System 76 and the dozens of other similar companies around the world. Sure not quite as easy as walking into a retail store, but on the other hand I don't know anybody who bought their (non-Apple) laptop at a retail store.
      - joshuapants 12y ago
        Ordering something online is far easier than going to a retail store. I can drive for a few minutes to get to a Best Buy, look around to see if what I want is in stock, tell the salesperson who has been hounding me for the past 10 minutes that I'd like to buy it, wait in line at the register, then drive home or I can go online and be done with it in a few clicks.

gambiting 12y ago

....what? "windows/gnu/linux/apple" - what does any of these companies/products have to do with this? Lenovo put its customers at risk, if a judge sided with them it would be atrocious.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

onion2k 12y ago

There's a significant difference between Superfish, an intentionally installed application that deliberately mitigated security features in browsers to inject ads, and a security flaw that arose from poor design or a lack of good QA process. The latter are sloppy but ultimately an inevitable part of complex design; the former is an obnoxious lack of respect for your customer that deserves a serious penalty in damages and a complete reset of your brand's goodwill. That said, I think there's an argument that customers being in a position to sue over security flaws might not be such a bad thing. It might push companies to make security and privacy important features rather than second-class add-ons.

MisterNegative 12y ago
Any argument you make will contradict itself, because you make it a subjective matter. So choosing superfish could be seen as a lack of good QA process.