8 ms·

Seeing Greenwald on stage was fantastic. I wonder how much hassle he and Poitras had getting into the US.

by gonzo 12y ago

rtpg 12y ago
probably not nearly as much as we'd believe. Pretty much every case of border frustration that I've heard from this group of people has usually turned out somewhat founded (like when Greenwald's partner got stopped while he was actually carrying confidential documents). Then again, police harass people for no good reason all the time, so the TSA could very well have the same culture. Not a huge fan of security theater. EDIT: stand corrected, the harrassement by the DHS agents described in this is pretty horrible
- locusm 12y ago
  Theres plenty of articles out there about this topic. http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_filmmaker_repeatedly_detained_at_border/ http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_filmmaker_repeatedly_det...
  - unimportant 12y ago
    Even as a western European foreigner who does nothing of interest to anyone, US immigration comes off as very hostile in comparison to any other country I have visited and TSA agents are basically on the same level as prison wardens (low education, low pay and enabled to power trip over anyone without a fear of repercussions).
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      > on the same level as prison wardens (low education, low pay and enabled to power trip over anyone without a fear of repercussions). And they act the same way too, looking at you as if you were a criminal and asking you questions barking.
    - SuddsMcDuff 12y ago
      I actually found the opposite when I visited the US for the first time last year. I was slightly nervous about encountering the TSA as I'd read some absolute horror stories online (many through Hacker News). But I've got to say, the TSA agents I encountered were incredibly friendly and helpful, even chatting and joking with my wife and I^. Of course they did break into my suit case and destroy my pad lock but hey ho, at least they left me a friendly note. Anyway I think it's important that both sides of the coin are represented here, people are more likely to write about negative experiences in general. ^We were on honeymoon in Orlando which probably accounts for the generally positive reception :)
      - rtpg 12y ago
        A couple years back I got fast tracked for the first time through a TSA line ( France -> Chicago ). Person who was sitting next to me in the flight was just as American as I was but hey her skin was dark (4th generation Indian parents or something?) so she got pulled to the side. Based off of similar discussions I've had with other people on flights like this, a really good first approximation of the stopping time is "color of skin."
        michaelbuddy 12y ago
        I've been pulled to the side seems like 30% of the time and I'm just a mutt from the Midwest with some international trips in my passport. I don't take offense because it happens with so many people and so many people glide through unscathed whether pulled aside or not. it's annoying but always random enough.
- locusm 12y ago
  Laura Poitras talks about it in this interview with Bill Maher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYTUJ6st2Aw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYTUJ6st2Aw
wheels 12y ago
They're both American citizens. At the end of the day, they have to be let in. They could, potentially, be charged with a crime, but not turned away.
- grecy 12y ago
  While I understand your reasoning, keep in mind there are US citizens that are being executed without even a trial. It's fairly obvious the government can and will do whatever they want.
  - NegativeK 12y ago
    Prosecuting a journalist -- over something that has the executive branch sweating bullets -- when they're on the way to attend one of the biggest entertainment award ceremonies of the year would be like loading a revolver with a whole stick of dynamite and pretending you're just going to shoot your foot off. "TSA imprisons Oscar winners on their way to the ceremonies" isn't something Obama wants to see in every newspaper on Monday morning.
    - rdtsc 12y ago
      Agree with your comment personally. But can see how one might have these objections: * It would be a way to make an example out of "collaborators". Presumably in the future the next Greenwald would think twice before embarking on this kind of project. * It would also be a way to prove to themselves and the rest of the world that "nobody really cares and public in general supports the Government". Regarding the last issue. There is a hidden danger in these revelations and that is despite all the talk and all the press, it seems the general public is not too interested in the topic after all. This in turn serves as a signal to the executive branch and to the NSA that they need not worry much and can even increase the intensity of their programs.
    - imron 12y ago
      > "TSA imprisons Oscar winners on their way to the ceremonies" Haha, yeah, that would never happen -- oh, except for that one time when it almost did (nominee only, not the winner): http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/palestinian-oscar-nominee-detained-lax-article-1.1269059 http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/palestini...
rst 12y ago
Both have made several appearances in the US promoting the film; Greenwald has also been on a book tour. They're probably taking care with what they try to take through customs (if anything), but simply visiting doesn't seem (for the moment at least) to be prohibitively tough.
michaelbuddy 12y ago
I gotta say, Greenwald with all the good he does shining light on things, really bothers me the way he misrepresents Sam Harris. He basically misleads people on what Sam Harris says about Islam and it worries me that Greenwald may be a little too loose with facts in other areas of his reporting.
- logn 12y ago
  Here is a somewhat heated and very informative 3 hour interview in which pundit Cenk Uygur talks to Sam Harris about these criticisms -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU
  - michaelbuddy 12y ago
    good share. saw that not long ago.
- lern_too_spel 12y ago
  He is absolutely loose with the facts. To this day, he doesn't know what PRISM is, unlike nearly everybody else in the press. The leaks would have been better managed by almost any other reporter.
- michaelbuddy 12y ago
  Nice, I get downvotes for having a balanced opinion and statements that can be fact checked quite easily.
  - t_7u_ol8 12y ago
    We mustn't allow the clarity of truth to be muddied by facts. What are you, an NSA puppet or something?
- meowface 12y ago
  I attempted to research this issue, and as far as I can tell Greenwald did not misrepresent Harris' opinion. I found the full context of the following quotes by Harris, which Greenwald presented, and they mean exactly what they look like: >"We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim." >"We are not at war with terrorism. We are at war with Islam." >"The erection of a mosque upon the ashes of this atrocity will also be viewed by many millions of Muslims as a victory — and as a sign that the liberal values of the West are synonymous with decadence and cowardice." >"Unless liberals realize that there are tens of millions of people in the Muslim world who are far scarier than Dick Cheney, they will be unable to protect civilization from its genuine enemies." Plus several more along those lines. I agree with both Harris and Greenwald to varying extents here, but where exactly did Greenwald mislead people on what Harris has said about Islam? One may think Harris is right or wrong and may disagree with Greenwald taking the stance that Harris is wrong, but I think Greenwald painted an accurate picture of what Harris thinks about the issue.
param 12y ago
Greenwald has said on multiple occasions that he feels very comfortable coming to the US because of its constitution and freedom of speech as an explicit granted right. He isn't going back to the UK anytime soon.
firebones 12y ago
He seemed to flinch when she took his arm, almost as if he didn't want to be upstage.
oskarth 12y ago
Since they went to the US for the Oscars, the USG making a fuss would get them a lot of attention from the media establishment and the general public, i.e. not really desirable.

Seeing Greenwald on stage was fantastic. I wonder how much hassle he and Poitras had getting into the US.

by gonzo 12y ago

Seeing Greenwald on stage was fantastic. I wonder how much hassle he and Poitras had getting into the US.

rtpg 12y ago

probably not nearly as much as we'd believe. Pretty much every case of border frustration that I've heard from this group of people has usually turned out somewhat founded (like when Greenwald's partner got stopped while he was actually carrying confidential documents). Then again, police harass people for no good reason all the time, so the TSA could very well have the same culture. Not a huge fan of security theater. EDIT: stand corrected, the harrassement by the DHS agents described in this is pretty horrible

locusm 12y ago
Theres plenty of articles out there about this topic. http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_filmmaker_repeatedly_detained_at_border/ http://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_filmmaker_repeatedly_det...
- unimportant 12y ago
  Even as a western European foreigner who does nothing of interest to anyone, US immigration comes off as very hostile in comparison to any other country I have visited and TSA agents are basically on the same level as prison wardens (low education, low pay and enabled to power trip over anyone without a fear of repercussions).
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    > on the same level as prison wardens (low education, low pay and enabled to power trip over anyone without a fear of repercussions). And they act the same way too, looking at you as if you were a criminal and asking you questions barking.
  - SuddsMcDuff 12y ago
    I actually found the opposite when I visited the US for the first time last year. I was slightly nervous about encountering the TSA as I'd read some absolute horror stories online (many through Hacker News). But I've got to say, the TSA agents I encountered were incredibly friendly and helpful, even chatting and joking with my wife and I^. Of course they did break into my suit case and destroy my pad lock but hey ho, at least they left me a friendly note. Anyway I think it's important that both sides of the coin are represented here, people are more likely to write about negative experiences in general. ^We were on honeymoon in Orlando which probably accounts for the generally positive reception :)
    - rtpg 12y ago
      A couple years back I got fast tracked for the first time through a TSA line ( France -> Chicago ). Person who was sitting next to me in the flight was just as American as I was but hey her skin was dark (4th generation Indian parents or something?) so she got pulled to the side. Based off of similar discussions I've had with other people on flights like this, a really good first approximation of the stopping time is "color of skin."
      - michaelbuddy 12y ago
        I've been pulled to the side seems like 30% of the time and I'm just a mutt from the Midwest with some international trips in my passport. I don't take offense because it happens with so many people and so many people glide through unscathed whether pulled aside or not. it's annoying but always random enough.
locusm 12y ago
Laura Poitras talks about it in this interview with Bill Maher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYTUJ6st2Aw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYTUJ6st2Aw

wheels 12y ago

They're both American citizens. At the end of the day, they have to be let in. They could, potentially, be charged with a crime, but not turned away.

grecy 12y ago
While I understand your reasoning, keep in mind there are US citizens that are being executed without even a trial. It's fairly obvious the government can and will do whatever they want.
- NegativeK 12y ago
  Prosecuting a journalist -- over something that has the executive branch sweating bullets -- when they're on the way to attend one of the biggest entertainment award ceremonies of the year would be like loading a revolver with a whole stick of dynamite and pretending you're just going to shoot your foot off. "TSA imprisons Oscar winners on their way to the ceremonies" isn't something Obama wants to see in every newspaper on Monday morning.
  - rdtsc 12y ago
    Agree with your comment personally. But can see how one might have these objections: * It would be a way to make an example out of "collaborators". Presumably in the future the next Greenwald would think twice before embarking on this kind of project. * It would also be a way to prove to themselves and the rest of the world that "nobody really cares and public in general supports the Government". Regarding the last issue. There is a hidden danger in these revelations and that is despite all the talk and all the press, it seems the general public is not too interested in the topic after all. This in turn serves as a signal to the executive branch and to the NSA that they need not worry much and can even increase the intensity of their programs.
  - imron 12y ago
    > "TSA imprisons Oscar winners on their way to the ceremonies" Haha, yeah, that would never happen -- oh, except for that one time when it almost did (nominee only, not the winner): http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/palestinian-oscar-nominee-detained-lax-article-1.1269059 http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/palestini...

rst 12y ago

Both have made several appearances in the US promoting the film; Greenwald has also been on a book tour. They're probably taking care with what they try to take through customs (if anything), but simply visiting doesn't seem (for the moment at least) to be prohibitively tough.

michaelbuddy 12y ago

I gotta say, Greenwald with all the good he does shining light on things, really bothers me the way he misrepresents Sam Harris. He basically misleads people on what Sam Harris says about Islam and it worries me that Greenwald may be a little too loose with facts in other areas of his reporting.

logn 12y ago
Here is a somewhat heated and very informative 3 hour interview in which pundit Cenk Uygur talks to Sam Harris about these criticisms -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU
- michaelbuddy 12y ago
  good share. saw that not long ago.
lern_too_spel 12y ago
He is absolutely loose with the facts. To this day, he doesn't know what PRISM is, unlike nearly everybody else in the press. The leaks would have been better managed by almost any other reporter.
michaelbuddy 12y ago
Nice, I get downvotes for having a balanced opinion and statements that can be fact checked quite easily.
- t_7u_ol8 12y ago
  We mustn't allow the clarity of truth to be muddied by facts. What are you, an NSA puppet or something?
meowface 12y ago
I attempted to research this issue, and as far as I can tell Greenwald did not misrepresent Harris' opinion. I found the full context of the following quotes by Harris, which Greenwald presented, and they mean exactly what they look like: >"We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim." >"We are not at war with terrorism. We are at war with Islam." >"The erection of a mosque upon the ashes of this atrocity will also be viewed by many millions of Muslims as a victory — and as a sign that the liberal values of the West are synonymous with decadence and cowardice." >"Unless liberals realize that there are tens of millions of people in the Muslim world who are far scarier than Dick Cheney, they will be unable to protect civilization from its genuine enemies." Plus several more along those lines. I agree with both Harris and Greenwald to varying extents here, but where exactly did Greenwald mislead people on what Harris has said about Islam? One may think Harris is right or wrong and may disagree with Greenwald taking the stance that Harris is wrong, but I think Greenwald painted an accurate picture of what Harris thinks about the issue.

param 12y ago

Greenwald has said on multiple occasions that he feels very comfortable coming to the US because of its constitution and freedom of speech as an explicit granted right. He isn't going back to the UK anytime soon.

firebones 12y ago

He seemed to flinch when she took his arm, almost as if he didn't want to be upstage.

oskarth 12y ago

Since they went to the US for the Oscars, the USG making a fuss would get them a lot of attention from the media establishment and the general public, i.e. not really desirable.