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It was offensive and dismissive, so I responded in kind. Anyone who is so ignorant as to deny the rampant misogyny in tech -- in the face of overwhelming evide

It was offensive and dismissive, so I responded in kind. Anyone who is so ignorant as to deny the rampant misogyny in tech -- in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary -- is not someone who is going to be swayed by any appeal to reason and so I'm not going to waste my time in vain.

reitanqild 12y ago
Feel free to explain how it was offensive.
curun1r 12y ago
And your simplistic, black and white, view of women's situation in the tech world is naive and lacks the nuance necessary to achieve any positive change. The comment you so rudely dismissed made an excellent point. Misogyny is a deep-rooted problem in our society, not just the tech world, and has been for quite some time. This is evidenced by the fact that some of the worst discrimination against women comes from other women. Dismissive name calling will only lead to complaining. Only through understanding will we achieve progress. We need to examine why we're creating work environments that benefit aggressive personalities. In my job as an engineering manager, I've had to coach two male engineers to be more influential across the organization. This journey has been hard for them since they're the quintessential type-B personalities that are most happy simply getting their work done. But it's been made abundantly clear to me that they cannot advance beyond the Staff level without becoming more vocal leaders. I know this journey well since I've had to force myself into the same unnatural tendencies. It frustrates me to hear stories like the one we're responding to. Women complaining about being shut out of discussions? I had the same thing happen and for quite some time and I had to constantly ask my manager why I wasn't included in certain meetings. Over time, I started getting invited to more. I've realized that getting my due promotions has required me to be somewhat of an asshole. I don't think my workplace, a large enterprise software company, is uncommon and that's a huge problem. Women complaining about being paid less for the same work? I've witnessed about 100 salary negotiations in my time as a manager and every female prospect has either undervalued herself or caved much too easily whereas most male prospects know their value and fight for it. I think we can all agree that the outcomes, when women are underpaid, overlooked and made to feel unwelcome, need to change. But the processes that lead to those outcomes are incredibly complex and oversimplifying them does an incredible disservice. These issues are incredibly nuanced and when people like you deny that, you prevent the discussions that might lead to the understanding that is our only hope of remedying the situation.

reitanqild 12y ago

Feel free to explain how it was offensive.

curun1r 12y ago

And your simplistic, black and white, view of women's situation in the tech world is naive and lacks the nuance necessary to achieve any positive change. The comment you so rudely dismissed made an excellent point. Misogyny is a deep-rooted problem in our society, not just the tech world, and has been for quite some time. This is evidenced by the fact that some of the worst discrimination against women comes from other women. Dismissive name calling will only lead to complaining. Only through understanding will we achieve progress. We need to examine why we're creating work environments that benefit aggressive personalities. In my job as an engineering manager, I've had to coach two male engineers to be more influential across the organization. This journey has been hard for them since they're the quintessential type-B personalities that are most happy simply getting their work done. But it's been made abundantly clear to me that they cannot advance beyond the Staff level without becoming more vocal leaders. I know this journey well since I've had to force myself into the same unnatural tendencies. It frustrates me to hear stories like the one we're responding to. Women complaining about being shut out of discussions? I had the same thing happen and for quite some time and I had to constantly ask my manager why I wasn't included in certain meetings. Over time, I started getting invited to more. I've realized that getting my due promotions has required me to be somewhat of an asshole. I don't think my workplace, a large enterprise software company, is uncommon and that's a huge problem. Women complaining about being paid less for the same work? I've witnessed about 100 salary negotiations in my time as a manager and every female prospect has either undervalued herself or caved much too easily whereas most male prospects know their value and fight for it. I think we can all agree that the outcomes, when women are underpaid, overlooked and made to feel unwelcome, need to change. But the processes that lead to those outcomes are incredibly complex and oversimplifying them does an incredible disservice. These issues are incredibly nuanced and when people like you deny that, you prevent the discussions that might lead to the understanding that is our only hope of remedying the situation.