4 ms·

I'm commenting because I don't want this on the front page. Not that I am writing more comments that I would otherwise just to get it off the front page, but r

by swatow 12y ago

I'm commenting because I don't want this on the front page. Not that I am writing more comments that I would otherwise just to get it off the front page, but rather that I think that the reasons that this algorithm is used, apply to this article. As a tech worker I am sick of being degraded and dehumanized in the media, with terms like "twerp" and "soulless". What was our crime? Being awkward, White (or Asian or Indian) and male? Not living the lifestyle or having the attitudes that the Left require of SF residents? The left dehumanizes people that it wants to attack (often physically, as has happened in SF [0]). We should recognize that the dehumanization and degradation of tech workers is not only hateful and unjustified, but also likely to result in violent acts. [0] http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/tech/mobile/google-glass-attack/ http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/tech/mobile/google-glass-attac...

ild 12y ago
Techies are hated because, compared to old money, they seem to be (being young, probably why) self-centered, give no investments in community, are willfully agreeing to live in illegal condo conversion etc. And also, the type of techies who move to SF are more towards libertarian startupniks; humble Indian H1B workers all live in Santa Clara, Milpitas, Campbell etc.
- swatow 12y ago
  How is this characterization of techies different to the reasons someone might give for hating Blacks, Jews or Mexicans? Because it's true? Are you going to require the same standard of evidence for these claims you make about techies, as you would if someone made similar claims about Blacks, Jews or Mexicans?
  - ild 12y ago
    > someone might give for hating Blacks, Jews or Mexicans? Because: 1) The groups you mentioned above are too heterogeneous to pass any blanket judgment. 2) The conversation is not about techies in general (say a system admin in Shaker Heights, OH, a programmer in Tacoma, WA etc.) but narrow subset of IT people who is well aware of social tensions in city, caused by rapid influx of money, too busy/lazy to participate in improving social ills of the place _insist_ in moving in here, for variety of reasons, although they work in Mountain View. Keep in mind I do not hate them; I myself despise hatred.
    - swatow 12y ago
      1) The groups you mentioned above are too heterogeneous to pass any blanket judgment. But statements against these groups could also be made in a specific context. And I'm sure the people making strong claims against these groups, as you are about tech, would view them as homogeneous. 2) The conversation is not about techies in general (say a system admin in Shaker Heights, OH, a programmer in Tacoma, WA etc.) but narrow subset of IT people who is well aware of social tensions in city, caused by rapid influx of money, too busy/lazy to participate in improving social ills of the place This is an example of an unsubstantiated claim. Again, how to do determine what level of evidence is needed to make such a claim? If a similar claim was made against any other group, evidence would be demanded. insist_ in moving in here, for variety of reasons, although they work in Mountain View. This only makes sense if you assume everything else bad about Tech workers you've claimed is true. If they've done nothing wrong, and prejudice against them is not justified, why shouldn't they move to SF for any reason they like? Keep in mind I do not hate them; I myself despise hatred. I understand, but it's irrelevant. You are listing grievances that people use to justify their hatred of techies, and presumably you agree these grievances are well founded, even if you don't think they justify hatred. I'm arguing against these grievances being justified.
    - BashiBazouk 12y ago
      But, so what? Did the Beats ask the north beach cafes if they could hang out? Did the hippies ask the residents of the Haight if they could make it the center of the counter culture? Did the gays ask the Castro residents if they wanted to be the center of gay rights? In every case the people mentioned just did it. Just like the tech folks are doing now. Lets see what comes of it rather than grasping on to the past. It's a hell of a lot easier to sell art, do theater, have concerts when your patrons have money. Change is not always bad and reality rarely mimics binary opposition...
  - astrocyte 12y ago
    You're way off balance and delusional if you think the natural human reaction to a snide smarta* relates in someway to 'hatred' for blacks/jews/mexicans. Your comments reflect how out of touch with reality a good number of techies are in the valley. It's sad and pathetic and it only exists due to the relatively homogeneous bubble that has been created out there. If it were more heterogeneous like it was in the past, this frame of mind you seem to have settled on wouldn't be the case because you'd constantly be checked by reality of people outside of your sphere on a daily basis. That check/balance has been removed and all that remains is a bunch of immature newly minted self-absorbed dweebs who feel the world should bow to them because they made some app that monetizes other people's data. You have no clear and sound perspective on race relations. You have no clear and sound perspective on how to treat women. and when you go about being a d*ck, on the off chance that someone checks you, you feel they hate you.. like the jews Jesus.. This is why i left the bay area.
    - swatow 12y ago
      What defines a "snide smartass" really depends on your viewpoint. I'm sure the people who murdered Emmett Till thought he was a snide smartass, who was living in a bubble of Northern race relations, and needed to be checked by reality. I don't believe that unlawful violence, whether conducted by the government, or by violent individuals encouraged by supporters like you, has any place in society. You approve of violence when it furthers your own political goals, in this case, to punish middle class White nerds who have unacceptable views on diversity etc. But I doubt you can explain how your justifications don't also apply to, for example, the racial violence I mentioned above.
      - astrocyte 12y ago
        *sigh. What defines one is when you are unaware that you are one. Your comments reflect on your lack of awareness beyond your bubble. 'unlawful violence' ... 'violent individuals encouraged by supporters like you' The world isn't as academic as you have convinced yourself it is. Again, the majority of people on here are tech workers (such as myself) and are highly educated. Yet you act as though there is no validity in any viewpoints beyond your own. Get your head out of your behind. You'll live a much more satisfying life. You're most likely not black or jewish nor have you faced any true hardships or oppression in your life. So, please don't refer to people who have in your shallow 'appeal to extreme' arguments. You're educated, got a tech job, and work a 9-5 whose pay is adjusted to the cost of living. There are people who run lawn businesses who make more than you. You're not holy than thou'. The world does not revolve around you. So, give it a rest.
astrocyte 12y ago
Give me a break with this garbage. The majority of the people on here are tech workers. 'degraded' .. 'dehumanized'... The left? who the heck is that? Some days I'm right. Some days I'm center. No one enjoys or will celebrate a homogeneous population in 2015. People want diversity. Money is an amplifier that has diminishing returns. Too much of it and you get white noise and foolishness. It doesn't matter what your occupation or race is (you could be purple and grind stones for a living for all I care). As for the google glass attacks, that highlights quite clearly the nature of the type of a-holes that have been created in the tech-sphere : I have money and I can do what I want no matter who it pisses off. Hello .. there is a real world out there and people will punch your lights out if you selfishly go about pissing them off w/o consideration. The glasshole incidents reflect clearly on the types of jerks that are the new cream of the crop in the valley. What, you think you are so high and mighty that no one should dare knock you out for being a dick? Wake up and stop being snotty.
- dang 12y ago
  Please read the Hacker News guidelines and try harder to follow them when commenting on the site. They ask you to remain civil, even when another user is wrong. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- swatow 12y ago
  I don't think that people who criticize tech workers are only saying that it would be bad if everyone was a tech worker because the city would be less diverse. Rather, they also claim that tech workers contribute less, and are generally less interesting people to be around, than others. This is what I was objecting to. But your claim that tech workers in particular, and rich people in general, make a city less interesting, is also wrong. There is a lot of diversity within the tech industry (apart from gender diversity). I work with Indians, Chinese, Russians and US citizens. (EDIT: and even the claim that middle class Whites are homogeneous is wrong, and the kind of prejudice that I was originally complaining about). I believe that attacks on glass wearers were primarily based on objecting to people identifying with the tech industry in a very visible and gaudy way, not on privacy concerns. E.g. the title of the article was "Google Glass targeted as symbol by anti-tech crowd" and from the article, In a video Sarah Slocum shared with KRON-TV, a woman can be heard saying "You're killing the city" while approaching Slocum and apparently trying to rip the headset off of her face. Do you agree with this, and if so, do you still think that these attacks are justified? Is simply being in the tech industry, and having the wrong attitudes, enough to warrant violence? Or is it the privacy concerns around glass that justify the violence?

by swatow 12y ago

ild 12y ago

Techies are hated because, compared to old money, they seem to be (being young, probably why) self-centered, give no investments in community, are willfully agreeing to live in illegal condo conversion etc. And also, the type of techies who move to SF are more towards libertarian startupniks; humble Indian H1B workers all live in Santa Clara, Milpitas, Campbell etc.

swatow 12y ago
How is this characterization of techies different to the reasons someone might give for hating Blacks, Jews or Mexicans? Because it's true? Are you going to require the same standard of evidence for these claims you make about techies, as you would if someone made similar claims about Blacks, Jews or Mexicans?
- ild 12y ago
  > someone might give for hating Blacks, Jews or Mexicans? Because: 1) The groups you mentioned above are too heterogeneous to pass any blanket judgment. 2) The conversation is not about techies in general (say a system admin in Shaker Heights, OH, a programmer in Tacoma, WA etc.) but narrow subset of IT people who is well aware of social tensions in city, caused by rapid influx of money, too busy/lazy to participate in improving social ills of the place _insist_ in moving in here, for variety of reasons, although they work in Mountain View. Keep in mind I do not hate them; I myself despise hatred.
  - swatow 12y ago
    1) The groups you mentioned above are too heterogeneous to pass any blanket judgment. But statements against these groups could also be made in a specific context. And I'm sure the people making strong claims against these groups, as you are about tech, would view them as homogeneous. 2) The conversation is not about techies in general (say a system admin in Shaker Heights, OH, a programmer in Tacoma, WA etc.) but narrow subset of IT people who is well aware of social tensions in city, caused by rapid influx of money, too busy/lazy to participate in improving social ills of the place This is an example of an unsubstantiated claim. Again, how to do determine what level of evidence is needed to make such a claim? If a similar claim was made against any other group, evidence would be demanded. insist_ in moving in here, for variety of reasons, although they work in Mountain View. This only makes sense if you assume everything else bad about Tech workers you've claimed is true. If they've done nothing wrong, and prejudice against them is not justified, why shouldn't they move to SF for any reason they like? Keep in mind I do not hate them; I myself despise hatred. I understand, but it's irrelevant. You are listing grievances that people use to justify their hatred of techies, and presumably you agree these grievances are well founded, even if you don't think they justify hatred. I'm arguing against these grievances being justified.
  - BashiBazouk 12y ago
    But, so what? Did the Beats ask the north beach cafes if they could hang out? Did the hippies ask the residents of the Haight if they could make it the center of the counter culture? Did the gays ask the Castro residents if they wanted to be the center of gay rights? In every case the people mentioned just did it. Just like the tech folks are doing now. Lets see what comes of it rather than grasping on to the past. It's a hell of a lot easier to sell art, do theater, have concerts when your patrons have money. Change is not always bad and reality rarely mimics binary opposition...
- astrocyte 12y ago
  You're way off balance and delusional if you think the natural human reaction to a snide smarta* relates in someway to 'hatred' for blacks/jews/mexicans. Your comments reflect how out of touch with reality a good number of techies are in the valley. It's sad and pathetic and it only exists due to the relatively homogeneous bubble that has been created out there. If it were more heterogeneous like it was in the past, this frame of mind you seem to have settled on wouldn't be the case because you'd constantly be checked by reality of people outside of your sphere on a daily basis. That check/balance has been removed and all that remains is a bunch of immature newly minted self-absorbed dweebs who feel the world should bow to them because they made some app that monetizes other people's data. You have no clear and sound perspective on race relations. You have no clear and sound perspective on how to treat women. and when you go about being a d*ck, on the off chance that someone checks you, you feel they hate you.. like the jews Jesus.. This is why i left the bay area.
  - swatow 12y ago
    What defines a "snide smartass" really depends on your viewpoint. I'm sure the people who murdered Emmett Till thought he was a snide smartass, who was living in a bubble of Northern race relations, and needed to be checked by reality. I don't believe that unlawful violence, whether conducted by the government, or by violent individuals encouraged by supporters like you, has any place in society. You approve of violence when it furthers your own political goals, in this case, to punish middle class White nerds who have unacceptable views on diversity etc. But I doubt you can explain how your justifications don't also apply to, for example, the racial violence I mentioned above.
    - astrocyte 12y ago
      *sigh. What defines one is when you are unaware that you are one. Your comments reflect on your lack of awareness beyond your bubble. 'unlawful violence' ... 'violent individuals encouraged by supporters like you' The world isn't as academic as you have convinced yourself it is. Again, the majority of people on here are tech workers (such as myself) and are highly educated. Yet you act as though there is no validity in any viewpoints beyond your own. Get your head out of your behind. You'll live a much more satisfying life. You're most likely not black or jewish nor have you faced any true hardships or oppression in your life. So, please don't refer to people who have in your shallow 'appeal to extreme' arguments. You're educated, got a tech job, and work a 9-5 whose pay is adjusted to the cost of living. There are people who run lawn businesses who make more than you. You're not holy than thou'. The world does not revolve around you. So, give it a rest.

astrocyte 12y ago

Give me a break with this garbage. The majority of the people on here are tech workers. 'degraded' .. 'dehumanized'... The left? who the heck is that? Some days I'm right. Some days I'm center. No one enjoys or will celebrate a homogeneous population in 2015. People want diversity. Money is an amplifier that has diminishing returns. Too much of it and you get white noise and foolishness. It doesn't matter what your occupation or race is (you could be purple and grind stones for a living for all I care). As for the google glass attacks, that highlights quite clearly the nature of the type of a-holes that have been created in the tech-sphere : I have money and I can do what I want no matter who it pisses off. Hello .. there is a real world out there and people will punch your lights out if you selfishly go about pissing them off w/o consideration. The glasshole incidents reflect clearly on the types of jerks that are the new cream of the crop in the valley. What, you think you are so high and mighty that no one should dare knock you out for being a dick? Wake up and stop being snotty.

dang 12y ago
Please read the Hacker News guidelines and try harder to follow them when commenting on the site. They ask you to remain civil, even when another user is wrong. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
swatow 12y ago
I don't think that people who criticize tech workers are only saying that it would be bad if everyone was a tech worker because the city would be less diverse. Rather, they also claim that tech workers contribute less, and are generally less interesting people to be around, than others. This is what I was objecting to. But your claim that tech workers in particular, and rich people in general, make a city less interesting, is also wrong. There is a lot of diversity within the tech industry (apart from gender diversity). I work with Indians, Chinese, Russians and US citizens. (EDIT: and even the claim that middle class Whites are homogeneous is wrong, and the kind of prejudice that I was originally complaining about). I believe that attacks on glass wearers were primarily based on objecting to people identifying with the tech industry in a very visible and gaudy way, not on privacy concerns. E.g. the title of the article was "Google Glass targeted as symbol by anti-tech crowd" and from the article, In a video Sarah Slocum shared with KRON-TV, a woman can be heard saying "You're killing the city" while approaching Slocum and apparently trying to rip the headset off of her face. Do you agree with this, and if so, do you still think that these attacks are justified? Is simply being in the tech industry, and having the wrong attitudes, enough to warrant violence? Or is it the privacy concerns around glass that justify the violence?