7 ms·

More to the point, is there any thing that is a repellant for police harassment? I can think of a few things, but generally not easily achieved (e.g. large amou

by swombat 12y ago

More to the point, is there any thing that is a repellant for police harassment? I can think of a few things, but generally not easily achieved (e.g. large amounts of money or power or celebrity status)...

proveanegative 12y ago
Social cohesion is one possible one. For example, if you lived in a small community where the police officers knew you personally since childhood you would, on average, be less likely to be harassed by police.
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  As long as you meet all the social mores of that small community, as evaluated by your local busybodies. Otherwise, you're likely to be pervasively harassed.
  - proveanegative 12y ago
    That, sadly, is too often true. The only solution I see to this problem is allowing lots of different communities to exist with different sets of mores.
    - troels 12y ago
      Diversity within the police department would probably help.
    - JoshTriplett 12y ago
      That's a useful condition, but it ought to be completely unrelated to law enforcement. You shouldn't be required to live around people who look and think and act the same as you do to receive equal treatment by the law.
      - proveanegative 12y ago
        While I agree with you that it ought to be a separate issue I strongly doubt the separation is ever achieved in practice. Actual policing and "policing" of human behavior, looks and other norms appear to me to be inextricably linked. I'm sorry to single out this instance in particular but reinforcement of the local mores happens even through seemingly innocent behavior like your ought-statement above, which I happen to agree with but some people might not have, especially in the past. Police officers, persecutors, judges, etc. are affected by their own set of ought-statements in work as well as in life. (And the effect is exacerbated when you implement trial by jury.) On my part, I cannot come up with one historical example of people generally satisfied with how significantly different outsiders to their community policed them. I have come to think it's more or less an inevitability and the best we can do is to make it possible for people to freely move to where they find the mores agreeable.
okasaki 12y ago
In this case at least, the solution seems to be to not use illegal drugs.
- Xylakant 12y ago
  No, it isn't. The police is targeting people that are exactly trying to get away from drugs and are seeking professional help to achieve that goal.
anonbanker 12y ago
The fact that negligent investigation, false arrest, willful misconduct, and unlawful conversion are all valid civil causes of action, combined with knowledge on how to file a proper statement of claim, is all the repellant I've ever needed.
SwellJoe 12y ago
A few: - Being white - Being middle class or wealthy - Being well-dressed - Not having a disability or mental illness or addiction - Having many people with cameras trained on you and the police - Having a home Notice that many of those are not things under your direct control. Either you were born lucky enough to live a life mostly free of police violence, or you'll be subject to stop and frisk, regular harassment, probably jail time for minor crimes that wouldn't result in jail time for a wealthy white person, etc. I've occasionally run interference with police at protests and when homeless folks were being harassed by cops because I fit the right stereotypes for not getting the crap beat out of me or getting arrested. I'm simply not the kind of person they harass or arrest, in general. The thought of arresting me or putting me in my place crossed their mind on occasion, I'm sure, but there were usually, maybe always, cameras rolling when these occasions arose. Many people aren't lucky enough to get through police interactions without harm. Cops in the US are simply terrifying, and in many jurisdictions simply out of control. Not all the time, and not with all people (you could live your whole life without ever having a bad incident with a cop if you were born white/wealthy in America, so it's easy to be oblivious to this). I was oblivious for years...I read Reason magazine back then, and so I was aware of the deadly no-knock drug raids. But, the regulatory targeting of minorities to force them out of their homes and neighborhoods so that gentrification can proceed at will, the police targeting of the homeless and the mentally ill to make downtown districts more profitable for their owners, and drug enforcement only on the poorest in our communities, is the dirty little secret of "progressive" city governments. My current home city, Austin, is allegedly quite progressive. And, yet, illegal camping (i.e. sleeping while homeless) can result in a $500 ticket, and APD regularly clears out homeless camps, arresting anyone with drugs.

by swombat 12y ago

proveanegative 12y ago

Social cohesion is one possible one. For example, if you lived in a small community where the police officers knew you personally since childhood you would, on average, be less likely to be harassed by police.

JoshTriplett 12y ago
As long as you meet all the social mores of that small community, as evaluated by your local busybodies. Otherwise, you're likely to be pervasively harassed.
- proveanegative 12y ago
  That, sadly, is too often true. The only solution I see to this problem is allowing lots of different communities to exist with different sets of mores.
  - troels 12y ago
    Diversity within the police department would probably help.
  - JoshTriplett 12y ago
    That's a useful condition, but it ought to be completely unrelated to law enforcement. You shouldn't be required to live around people who look and think and act the same as you do to receive equal treatment by the law.
    - proveanegative 12y ago
      While I agree with you that it ought to be a separate issue I strongly doubt the separation is ever achieved in practice. Actual policing and "policing" of human behavior, looks and other norms appear to me to be inextricably linked. I'm sorry to single out this instance in particular but reinforcement of the local mores happens even through seemingly innocent behavior like your ought-statement above, which I happen to agree with but some people might not have, especially in the past. Police officers, persecutors, judges, etc. are affected by their own set of ought-statements in work as well as in life. (And the effect is exacerbated when you implement trial by jury.) On my part, I cannot come up with one historical example of people generally satisfied with how significantly different outsiders to their community policed them. I have come to think it's more or less an inevitability and the best we can do is to make it possible for people to freely move to where they find the mores agreeable.

okasaki 12y ago

In this case at least, the solution seems to be to not use illegal drugs.

Xylakant 12y ago
No, it isn't. The police is targeting people that are exactly trying to get away from drugs and are seeking professional help to achieve that goal.

anonbanker 12y ago

The fact that negligent investigation, false arrest, willful misconduct, and unlawful conversion are all valid civil causes of action, combined with knowledge on how to file a proper statement of claim, is all the repellant I've ever needed.

SwellJoe 12y ago

A few: - Being white - Being middle class or wealthy - Being well-dressed - Not having a disability or mental illness or addiction - Having many people with cameras trained on you and the police - Having a home Notice that many of those are not things under your direct control. Either you were born lucky enough to live a life mostly free of police violence, or you'll be subject to stop and frisk, regular harassment, probably jail time for minor crimes that wouldn't result in jail time for a wealthy white person, etc. I've occasionally run interference with police at protests and when homeless folks were being harassed by cops because I fit the right stereotypes for not getting the crap beat out of me or getting arrested. I'm simply not the kind of person they harass or arrest, in general. The thought of arresting me or putting me in my place crossed their mind on occasion, I'm sure, but there were usually, maybe always, cameras rolling when these occasions arose. Many people aren't lucky enough to get through police interactions without harm. Cops in the US are simply terrifying, and in many jurisdictions simply out of control. Not all the time, and not with all people (you could live your whole life without ever having a bad incident with a cop if you were born white/wealthy in America, so it's easy to be oblivious to this). I was oblivious for years...I read Reason magazine back then, and so I was aware of the deadly no-knock drug raids. But, the regulatory targeting of minorities to force them out of their homes and neighborhoods so that gentrification can proceed at will, the police targeting of the homeless and the mentally ill to make downtown districts more profitable for their owners, and drug enforcement only on the poorest in our communities, is the dirty little secret of "progressive" city governments. My current home city, Austin, is allegedly quite progressive. And, yet, illegal camping (i.e. sleeping while homeless) can result in a $500 ticket, and APD regularly clears out homeless camps, arresting anyone with drugs.