5 ms·

'He complains of a "soulless group of people", a "new breed" of men and women too busy with iPhones to "be here" in the moment, and shiny new Mercedes-Benzs on

'He complains of a "soulless group of people", a "new breed" of men and women too busy with iPhones to "be here" in the moment, and shiny new Mercedes-Benzs on his street.' So he can't tolerate people different than him? Tough luck I say.

kordless 12y ago
Someone isn't 'different' because they have their noses stuck in a device 24/7. They are simply not considering others around them. I see no reason why I should have to tolerate people going around not being present with others. We all have a right to our feelings, so saying "tough luck" is equivalent to saying "I don't care what you feel", which is actually the point of all of this.
- Wintamute 12y ago
  Aren't you saying "I don't care how you feel" to everyone choosing to engage with the world less directly/personally and more removed/technologically?
  - kordless 12y ago
    I'm saying the inverse, I think. The person in the article has a good point, and we shouldn't tolerate 'tough luck' as the response. Someone in their phone clearly doesn't have the bandwidth to care how I feel about their engagement with our reality. I've watched teenagers literally shake their friends to try to get them out of their phones to answer a question on which Jamba Juice they wanted. That behavior is irritating because it mutes my ability to state my feelings to that individual. Obviously I don't talk to everyone I see in the world, but given a significant amount of people run around with their nose in their phone all the time, it can affect how someone who isn't in their phone views the world. Less people engage in conversation, less people 'see' you on the street, less people are 'aware' you exist, etc. It's a real problem and SF is the epicenter of it because a) this is where it all gets built and b) it's part of the tech culture.
    - orangecat 12y ago
      Someone in their phone clearly doesn't have the bandwidth to care how I feel about their engagement with our reality. Your aesthetic preferences do not impose any obligations on anyone else.
- forthefuture 12y ago
  I guess a better way to phrase it is: "you can feel however you want". As long as you realize that brooding and feeling some type of negative way is a net negative on human civilization. You could think about the lives that people must live that they're using their phones that much. Maybe pressures they face at work that force them to constantly be available, or difficulty meeting friends with adult schedules so they have to try to fit in conversation when they can.
- Cyclone_ 12y ago
  Oh well I'm sorry but your feelings don't dictate whether or not someone lives next to you. Go live in a subdivision that has rules about what sort of people you like to be around. Just because you're intolerant doesn't mean they should not be able to do as they wish.
  - kordless 12y ago
    > I'm sorry your feelings don't dictate whether or not someone lives next to you Are you aware of what a blaming statement is? That's where you say I said something when I really didn't. For example: I never said anything about dictating who lives next to me. I said 'tolerate' as in 'accept'. I don't have to accept anyone who walks around with their nose in their phone all the time...in my life. That's it. I said exactly 0% about anyone living next to me, but I damn sure will tell someone who is stuck in their phone to watch out where they are going.
walshemj 12y ago
hmm sounds like the old argument for red lining maybe they don't like that nice Mr and Mrs Patel moving in next door.
- wavefunction 12y ago
  That's quite a leap to assign racism as the core of the author's complaint, don't you think? Especially since I can't seem to find anything referencing South Asians or any other sort of ethnic demarcation.
  - Cyclone_ 12y ago
    It is quite a leap...I don't think Ferlinghetti or the author of the article was complaining about racism at all, I think they just don't seem to like the tech people. I'm not really sure why but if I had to guess, I would say they don't view them as cultured people.
    - walshemj 12y ago
      As 50 or 60% or the recent tech incomers are from India that is indirect racism. And India has culture going back several thousand years.
      - Cyclone_ 12y ago
        Did you read the article? "Emerging in its place is the mostly white, male-dominated, monied monoculture of the tech industry and there appears no end in sight." Seems like he's complaining that SF is losing diversity.
        walshemj 12y ago
        Really seen the stats for the big tech companies? its not white males that are over represented compared to the USA's population its Black, Latino and Females that are under represented
        deleted 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
chippy 12y ago
"Good luck" is what he said. (which I find somewhat amusing)
clsec 12y ago
I believe he means something like this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9089307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9089307
A_COMPUTER 12y ago
I would be sympathetic to his sort of criticism except for the fact that it's really political who you're allowed to deride as "changing the culture". I mean, if he was complaining about all those darn Chinese or Mexicans changing the culture of San Francisco, he would have a problem. Not that I think the criticisms would be equivalent, but simply that it proves that people don't really think "culture" of a place is sacrosanct.
- walshemj 12y ago
  Quite I said as much and got down voted for my pains
  - swatow 12y ago
    Your point is different. The other poster's point is that wanting to preserve SF's culture against tech workers, is like wanting to preserve a city's culture against Chinese/Mexicans. Your point is that the article is really concerned about Indian immigration. I agree that there is anti-Indian/Chinese sentiment, but I don't think this is the main driver of the article. The animosity against White nerds is real, and proportionately fewer tech workers from India or China live in SF (they live in the greater bay area)
    - walshemj 12y ago
      That's not how I read it and when a white 70 year old uses terms like "different breed" I would bet he doesn't "really" mean white males. This is a "dog whistle" term
brandonmenc 12y ago
> "be here" in the moment Weasel words. I hear this all the time, and no one can tell me exactly what it means. Like, burying my nose in a book is certainly not "being here" or "living in the moment," but that's probably a sanctioned activity to people who say stuff like this.

kordless 12y ago

Someone isn't 'different' because they have their noses stuck in a device 24/7. They are simply not considering others around them. I see no reason why I should have to tolerate people going around not being present with others. We all have a right to our feelings, so saying "tough luck" is equivalent to saying "I don't care what you feel", which is actually the point of all of this.

Wintamute 12y ago
Aren't you saying "I don't care how you feel" to everyone choosing to engage with the world less directly/personally and more removed/technologically?
- kordless 12y ago
  I'm saying the inverse, I think. The person in the article has a good point, and we shouldn't tolerate 'tough luck' as the response. Someone in their phone clearly doesn't have the bandwidth to care how I feel about their engagement with our reality. I've watched teenagers literally shake their friends to try to get them out of their phones to answer a question on which Jamba Juice they wanted. That behavior is irritating because it mutes my ability to state my feelings to that individual. Obviously I don't talk to everyone I see in the world, but given a significant amount of people run around with their nose in their phone all the time, it can affect how someone who isn't in their phone views the world. Less people engage in conversation, less people 'see' you on the street, less people are 'aware' you exist, etc. It's a real problem and SF is the epicenter of it because a) this is where it all gets built and b) it's part of the tech culture.
  - orangecat 12y ago
    Someone in their phone clearly doesn't have the bandwidth to care how I feel about their engagement with our reality. Your aesthetic preferences do not impose any obligations on anyone else.
forthefuture 12y ago
I guess a better way to phrase it is: "you can feel however you want". As long as you realize that brooding and feeling some type of negative way is a net negative on human civilization. You could think about the lives that people must live that they're using their phones that much. Maybe pressures they face at work that force them to constantly be available, or difficulty meeting friends with adult schedules so they have to try to fit in conversation when they can.
Cyclone_ 12y ago
Oh well I'm sorry but your feelings don't dictate whether or not someone lives next to you. Go live in a subdivision that has rules about what sort of people you like to be around. Just because you're intolerant doesn't mean they should not be able to do as they wish.
- kordless 12y ago
  > I'm sorry your feelings don't dictate whether or not someone lives next to you Are you aware of what a blaming statement is? That's where you say I said something when I really didn't. For example: I never said anything about dictating who lives next to me. I said 'tolerate' as in 'accept'. I don't have to accept anyone who walks around with their nose in their phone all the time...in my life. That's it. I said exactly 0% about anyone living next to me, but I damn sure will tell someone who is stuck in their phone to watch out where they are going.

walshemj 12y ago

hmm sounds like the old argument for red lining maybe they don't like that nice Mr and Mrs Patel moving in next door.

wavefunction 12y ago
That's quite a leap to assign racism as the core of the author's complaint, don't you think? Especially since I can't seem to find anything referencing South Asians or any other sort of ethnic demarcation.
- Cyclone_ 12y ago
  It is quite a leap...I don't think Ferlinghetti or the author of the article was complaining about racism at all, I think they just don't seem to like the tech people. I'm not really sure why but if I had to guess, I would say they don't view them as cultured people.
  - walshemj 12y ago
    As 50 or 60% or the recent tech incomers are from India that is indirect racism. And India has culture going back several thousand years.
    - Cyclone_ 12y ago
      Did you read the article? "Emerging in its place is the mostly white, male-dominated, monied monoculture of the tech industry and there appears no end in sight." Seems like he's complaining that SF is losing diversity.
      - walshemj 12y ago
        Really seen the stats for the big tech companies? its not white males that are over represented compared to the USA's population its Black, Latino and Females that are under represented
      - deleted 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

chippy 12y ago

"Good luck" is what he said. (which I find somewhat amusing)

clsec 12y ago

I believe he means something like this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9089307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9089307

A_COMPUTER 12y ago

I would be sympathetic to his sort of criticism except for the fact that it's really political who you're allowed to deride as "changing the culture". I mean, if he was complaining about all those darn Chinese or Mexicans changing the culture of San Francisco, he would have a problem. Not that I think the criticisms would be equivalent, but simply that it proves that people don't really think "culture" of a place is sacrosanct.

walshemj 12y ago
Quite I said as much and got down voted for my pains
- swatow 12y ago
  Your point is different. The other poster's point is that wanting to preserve SF's culture against tech workers, is like wanting to preserve a city's culture against Chinese/Mexicans. Your point is that the article is really concerned about Indian immigration. I agree that there is anti-Indian/Chinese sentiment, but I don't think this is the main driver of the article. The animosity against White nerds is real, and proportionately fewer tech workers from India or China live in SF (they live in the greater bay area)
  - walshemj 12y ago
    That's not how I read it and when a white 70 year old uses terms like "different breed" I would bet he doesn't "really" mean white males. This is a "dog whistle" term

brandonmenc 12y ago

> "be here" in the moment Weasel words. I hear this all the time, and no one can tell me exactly what it means. Like, burying my nose in a book is certainly not "being here" or "living in the moment," but that's probably a sanctioned activity to people who say stuff like this.