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I'd rather not have everything I own connected to the internet. My appliances do everything I want them to do already. It's not just about hacking, either. I

by tsotha 12y ago

I'd rather not have everything I own connected to the internet. My appliances do everything I want them to do already. It's not just about hacking, either. It would be pretty easy to chart someone's routine if you knew every time he used something electronic.

Sir_Substance 12y ago
Not only would I prefer not to have everything connected to the internet, I believe it's imperative. In my first IT class at high school, my teacher told me something which has stuck with me as a golden rule of computer security: If you want to make a computer 100% secure, you should unplug all the cables, drop it in a vat of cement and then drop the entire block into the Mariana trench. He's right, but that's some next level security. However, a more usable tenant of security is that devices should be smart enough to do their job, and no smarter. Connecting your fire alarms to the internet will, at some point, result in someone setting all your alarms off at 2am just to fuck with you. The flip side is that if you're at home, you'll hear the alarm before you hear your phone, and if you're not at home then as long as it calls the fire brigade ASAP what different does it make if you get an alert on your phone? Why bother connecting it to the internet at all?
- digi_owl 12y ago
  That assumes a two way connection, adn/or a persistent connection. Various existing fire alarms etc will only open a connection to the service provider when needed. This usually because it has a legacy from the POTS days. That is perhaps the biggest issue with IOT, assuming a always present and bidirectional connection.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Connecting your fire alarms to the internet will, at some point, result in someone setting all your alarms off at 2am just to fuck with you. Or, perhaps more sinisterly, someone remotely disabling all your alarms before committing arson.
- confiscate 12y ago
  "Connecting your fire alarms to the internet will, at some point, result in someone setting all your alarms off at 2am just to fuck with you." I disagree. The "at some point" argument can be applied to anything. Having a smartphone connected to the internet will, at some point, result in someone hacking into your phone and calling 911 using your phone number, tens times a day. At some point, it's going to happen to someone. By your argument, we should ban smartphones because they are not 100% secure. Phones should just be phones, and web browsers should be separate devices. Phones should not be internet accessible because then they can be hacked into.
  - Sir_Substance 12y ago
    >By your argument It's a shame we still have illiterates in this day and age, truly a black mark on modern education. To review: my argument was that we should make devices no smarter then they need to be. Phones gain tangible benefits from being smart. Do kettles gain tangible benefits from being smart?
    - confiscate 12y ago
      Let's not make personal attacks here. Focus on the issue, not the person. Whether or not I am illiterate is not what we're debating here, and quite frankly, is none of your concern for the sake of this thread. Back before smartphones became popular, everyone I knew used to make the same argument for phones. "Do phones gain tangible benefits from being smart?" "Sure, you can check email on your phone, but I can do that at home--I don't want to check email on my phone" "I'd rather have a small flip phone than a huge PDA--too bulky to fit in my pocket." If Steve Jobs held the same attitude, smartphones wouldn't be the industry it is today. It would still just be an idea, being dismissed as "a toy" and not useful Have you used a kettle that is smart? I assume you must have given the conviction in the way you dismiss IoT as not useful. What pros / cons have you experienced from using a smart kettle that led you to dismiss it as being not useful? Was the smart kettle you were using designed well? How could it have been improved?
      - Sir_Substance 12y ago
majika 12y ago
Your electricity usage patterns are enough to determine your schedule, especially if you have electric water heating. Browse through some systems at PVOutput.org until you find one that publishes power usage data; you can usually see when the occupants wake up, when they do their washing on the weekends, when they turn on the TV in the evening, and when they go to sleep. With higher precision usage readings, you can determine what they're watching on their TV [0] [1]. I agree that the internet-of-things is another concerning layer of risk for privacy and security, though. [0]: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/08/28c3-smart-meter-hacking-can-disclose-which-tv-shows-and-movies-you-watch/ https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/08/28c3-smart-meter... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYe4SwQn2GE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYe4SwQn2GE

by tsotha 12y ago

Sir_Substance 12y ago

Not only would I prefer not to have everything connected to the internet, I believe it's imperative. In my first IT class at high school, my teacher told me something which has stuck with me as a golden rule of computer security: If you want to make a computer 100% secure, you should unplug all the cables, drop it in a vat of cement and then drop the entire block into the Mariana trench. He's right, but that's some next level security. However, a more usable tenant of security is that devices should be smart enough to do their job, and no smarter. Connecting your fire alarms to the internet will, at some point, result in someone setting all your alarms off at 2am just to fuck with you. The flip side is that if you're at home, you'll hear the alarm before you hear your phone, and if you're not at home then as long as it calls the fire brigade ASAP what different does it make if you get an alert on your phone? Why bother connecting it to the internet at all?

digi_owl 12y ago
That assumes a two way connection, adn/or a persistent connection. Various existing fire alarms etc will only open a connection to the service provider when needed. This usually because it has a legacy from the POTS days. That is perhaps the biggest issue with IOT, assuming a always present and bidirectional connection.
sliverstorm 12y ago
Connecting your fire alarms to the internet will, at some point, result in someone setting all your alarms off at 2am just to fuck with you. Or, perhaps more sinisterly, someone remotely disabling all your alarms before committing arson.
confiscate 12y ago
"Connecting your fire alarms to the internet will, at some point, result in someone setting all your alarms off at 2am just to fuck with you." I disagree. The "at some point" argument can be applied to anything. Having a smartphone connected to the internet will, at some point, result in someone hacking into your phone and calling 911 using your phone number, tens times a day. At some point, it's going to happen to someone. By your argument, we should ban smartphones because they are not 100% secure. Phones should just be phones, and web browsers should be separate devices. Phones should not be internet accessible because then they can be hacked into.
- Sir_Substance 12y ago
  >By your argument It's a shame we still have illiterates in this day and age, truly a black mark on modern education. To review: my argument was that we should make devices no smarter then they need to be. Phones gain tangible benefits from being smart. Do kettles gain tangible benefits from being smart?
  - confiscate 12y ago
    Let's not make personal attacks here. Focus on the issue, not the person. Whether or not I am illiterate is not what we're debating here, and quite frankly, is none of your concern for the sake of this thread. Back before smartphones became popular, everyone I knew used to make the same argument for phones. "Do phones gain tangible benefits from being smart?" "Sure, you can check email on your phone, but I can do that at home--I don't want to check email on my phone" "I'd rather have a small flip phone than a huge PDA--too bulky to fit in my pocket." If Steve Jobs held the same attitude, smartphones wouldn't be the industry it is today. It would still just be an idea, being dismissed as "a toy" and not useful Have you used a kettle that is smart? I assume you must have given the conviction in the way you dismiss IoT as not useful. What pros / cons have you experienced from using a smart kettle that led you to dismiss it as being not useful? Was the smart kettle you were using designed well? How could it have been improved?
    - Sir_Substance 12y ago

majika 12y ago

Your electricity usage patterns are enough to determine your schedule, especially if you have electric water heating. Browse through some systems at PVOutput.org until you find one that publishes power usage data; you can usually see when the occupants wake up, when they do their washing on the weekends, when they turn on the TV in the evening, and when they go to sleep. With higher precision usage readings, you can determine what they're watching on their TV [0] [1]. I agree that the internet-of-things is another concerning layer of risk for privacy and security, though. [0]: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/08/28c3-smart-meter-hacking-can-disclose-which-tv-shows-and-movies-you-watch/ https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/08/28c3-smart-meter... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYe4SwQn2GE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYe4SwQn2GE