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The word "clip" was briefly mentioned in this article. I never understood the "don't call 'magazines' 'clips'" fanaticism among gun enthusiasts. It seems to be

by pconner 12y ago

The word "clip" was briefly mentioned in this article. I never understood the "don't call 'magazines' 'clips'" fanaticism among gun enthusiasts. It seems to be a pretty common colloquialism for "magazine" in popular culture now.

walshemj 12y ago
Because clips are used for putting the bullets into the mag commonly used in ww1 era Rifles like the Lee Enfield.
542458 12y ago
Just because it's a popular colloquialism doesn't mean it's not incorrect. As a "clip" is a entirely different thing calling the two by the same name only confuses things, especially when a firearm uses both a magazine and clips.
gh02t 12y ago
Well they are distinctly different things, but I think it's an in-group/jargon thing. "Gun people" culture is to emphasize the distinction between a magazine and a clip, while normal people don't really care. You see it all the time in other communities, like how people here on HN would laugh at someone purporting to be a 'hacker' going on about how they like to 'program in HTML'. Now, if you really want to have fun with gun people, break out the old suppressor vs. silencer argument. The distinction between the two is ill-defined and there may or may not be a difference depending on who you ask, but some people will argue for hours over it.
privong 12y ago
> I never understood the "don't call 'magazines' 'clips'" fanaticism among gun enthusiasts. It's because "clip" refers to somthing different, if related. A clip refers specifically to a mechanism that clips onto multiple rounds of ammo in order to allow it to be inserted into a (fixed) magazine[0]. Some guns with fixed magazines use clips to enable faster reloading, while guns with removable magazines don't need a clip, because the entire magazine is swapped out. From outward appearances, and to a possibly untrained observer, reloading via inserting a clip looks similar to reloading with a removable magazine, which I presume is the source of the conflation. But, for some people, correct terminology is important; "coder" vs "hacker" vs "cracker", I suppose? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_%28ammunition%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_%28ammunition%29
csours 12y ago
Imagine pointing at a monitor and saying "that's the computer", or pointing at a desktop PC and saying "that's the C: drive". Its a way to distinguish those who know what they are talking about from those who do not. See also shibboleth [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
ericcumbee 12y ago
A magazine is the storage for the rounds and is what feeds rounds into the firing chamber. A clip is just a device that holds the rounds in position for feeding into the magazine.
- dunmalg 12y ago
  ...except in the case of an en bloc clip such as used in the M1 Garand, which goes into the magazine and is itself part of the feed mechanism. My pet theory is that the M1 is a big source of the current conflation of "clip" and "magazine". Millions of men were conscripted for WW2 and Korea in the US and for a great many of them their first experience with a self-loading firearm was with the M1 they were issued in training. To many of them, no matter how many autoloaders they were exposed to aftward, that thing you shoved into the gun that held the cartridges was called a CLIP, because that's what the drill sergeant in training called it. These men then went on to spread this habit of using CLIP and MAGAZINE interchangeably, and at this point it is too ingrained in the vernacular to ever go away.
  - Zancarius 12y ago
    > My pet theory is that the M1 is a big source of the current conflation of "clip" and "magazine". Huh, never thought about that. I'd imagine one way to test this theory might be to examine changes in the colloquial use of both terms relative to specific firearms and proximity to WWII. Although, as I pointed out in another comment, some firearms used both: An internal clip-fed magazine. Bet that's an even better source for confusion. :)
exelius 12y ago
The biggest difference is that a clip need not remain in the weapon to fire it. A magazine has an active feed mechanism (I.e. a spring) that forces the ammunition into the breach of the weapon. Almost no modern weapons use clips; the last popular one was the M1 Garand (standard issue US infantry rifle in WW2). It's a more than a semantic difference because there are some weapons that are capable of accepting both magazines and clips. Though such weapons are rare and I can't think of a modern example, there is a good reason for being picky.
- stan_rogers 12y ago
  5.56mm and 7.62mm (both NATO) in stripper clips are still standard issue formats used for reloading non-disposable magazines, and weapons that allow clip reloading of an installed magazine are not rare on the ground. The Garand was only unusual in that the clip was inserted into the weapon and not removed prior to firing.
- Zancarius 12y ago
  What's really fun, and probably even more confusing to the casual observer, is that most (all?) of the clip-fed firearms you'd remove the clip from after loading also had an internal magazine. So you're absolutely right! Especially when the terms refer to two completely different parts. Some samples that come to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannlicher_M1895 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannlicher_M1895 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96 (the old "broom-handle" mauser) I'm sure there's a few others. I saw a couple on Forgotten Weapons (they have a really great Youtube channel--check it out sometime) besides these two, but their names escape me.
alricb 12y ago
Here's way too much information on it, by Ian McCullough from Forgotten Weapons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zQb3KZpNM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zQb3KZpNM
damoncali 12y ago
I never understood that either (and I love guns). However, they are different things, and you do run into situations where imprecise language is confusing. If you want to load you clip with your clip, for example. Loading you magazine with your clip, on the other hand, is immediately clear. "Grab a few clips of ammo" has a distinctly different meaning than "Grab a few magazines of ammo" in some contexts. But honestly, I think it has more to do with ham-fisted and ignorant attempts by lawmakers to ban guns. The amount of technical illiteracy that litters gun laws is frustrating in the extreme to people who have to actually comply with those laws. Clip/magazine snobbery is just a way of venting that frustration.
Crito 12y ago
I'm sure many of our parents or relatives think similar things about computer terminology. "I can't connect to Internet Explorer" "You mean the internet, and your browser is called Chrome..." "Whatever, same thing. Just fix it." That does not make that terminology incorrect.

by pconner 12y ago

walshemj 12y ago

Because clips are used for putting the bullets into the mag commonly used in ww1 era Rifles like the Lee Enfield.

542458 12y ago

Just because it's a popular colloquialism doesn't mean it's not incorrect. As a "clip" is a entirely different thing calling the two by the same name only confuses things, especially when a firearm uses both a magazine and clips.

gh02t 12y ago

Well they are distinctly different things, but I think it's an in-group/jargon thing. "Gun people" culture is to emphasize the distinction between a magazine and a clip, while normal people don't really care. You see it all the time in other communities, like how people here on HN would laugh at someone purporting to be a 'hacker' going on about how they like to 'program in HTML'. Now, if you really want to have fun with gun people, break out the old suppressor vs. silencer argument. The distinction between the two is ill-defined and there may or may not be a difference depending on who you ask, but some people will argue for hours over it.

privong 12y ago

> I never understood the "don't call 'magazines' 'clips'" fanaticism among gun enthusiasts. It's because "clip" refers to somthing different, if related. A clip refers specifically to a mechanism that clips onto multiple rounds of ammo in order to allow it to be inserted into a (fixed) magazine[0]. Some guns with fixed magazines use clips to enable faster reloading, while guns with removable magazines don't need a clip, because the entire magazine is swapped out. From outward appearances, and to a possibly untrained observer, reloading via inserting a clip looks similar to reloading with a removable magazine, which I presume is the source of the conflation. But, for some people, correct terminology is important; "coder" vs "hacker" vs "cracker", I suppose? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_%28ammunition%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_%28ammunition%29

csours 12y ago

Imagine pointing at a monitor and saying "that's the computer", or pointing at a desktop PC and saying "that's the C: drive". Its a way to distinguish those who know what they are talking about from those who do not. See also shibboleth [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth

ericcumbee 12y ago

A magazine is the storage for the rounds and is what feeds rounds into the firing chamber. A clip is just a device that holds the rounds in position for feeding into the magazine.

dunmalg 12y ago
...except in the case of an en bloc clip such as used in the M1 Garand, which goes into the magazine and is itself part of the feed mechanism. My pet theory is that the M1 is a big source of the current conflation of "clip" and "magazine". Millions of men were conscripted for WW2 and Korea in the US and for a great many of them their first experience with a self-loading firearm was with the M1 they were issued in training. To many of them, no matter how many autoloaders they were exposed to aftward, that thing you shoved into the gun that held the cartridges was called a CLIP, because that's what the drill sergeant in training called it. These men then went on to spread this habit of using CLIP and MAGAZINE interchangeably, and at this point it is too ingrained in the vernacular to ever go away.
- Zancarius 12y ago
  > My pet theory is that the M1 is a big source of the current conflation of "clip" and "magazine". Huh, never thought about that. I'd imagine one way to test this theory might be to examine changes in the colloquial use of both terms relative to specific firearms and proximity to WWII. Although, as I pointed out in another comment, some firearms used both: An internal clip-fed magazine. Bet that's an even better source for confusion. :)

exelius 12y ago

The biggest difference is that a clip need not remain in the weapon to fire it. A magazine has an active feed mechanism (I.e. a spring) that forces the ammunition into the breach of the weapon. Almost no modern weapons use clips; the last popular one was the M1 Garand (standard issue US infantry rifle in WW2). It's a more than a semantic difference because there are some weapons that are capable of accepting both magazines and clips. Though such weapons are rare and I can't think of a modern example, there is a good reason for being picky.

stan_rogers 12y ago
5.56mm and 7.62mm (both NATO) in stripper clips are still standard issue formats used for reloading non-disposable magazines, and weapons that allow clip reloading of an installed magazine are not rare on the ground. The Garand was only unusual in that the clip was inserted into the weapon and not removed prior to firing.
Zancarius 12y ago
What's really fun, and probably even more confusing to the casual observer, is that most (all?) of the clip-fed firearms you'd remove the clip from after loading also had an internal magazine. So you're absolutely right! Especially when the terms refer to two completely different parts. Some samples that come to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannlicher_M1895 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannlicher_M1895 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96 (the old "broom-handle" mauser) I'm sure there's a few others. I saw a couple on Forgotten Weapons (they have a really great Youtube channel--check it out sometime) besides these two, but their names escape me.

alricb 12y ago

Here's way too much information on it, by Ian McCullough from Forgotten Weapons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zQb3KZpNM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zQb3KZpNM

damoncali 12y ago

I never understood that either (and I love guns). However, they are different things, and you do run into situations where imprecise language is confusing. If you want to load you clip with your clip, for example. Loading you magazine with your clip, on the other hand, is immediately clear. "Grab a few clips of ammo" has a distinctly different meaning than "Grab a few magazines of ammo" in some contexts. But honestly, I think it has more to do with ham-fisted and ignorant attempts by lawmakers to ban guns. The amount of technical illiteracy that litters gun laws is frustrating in the extreme to people who have to actually comply with those laws. Clip/magazine snobbery is just a way of venting that frustration.

Crito 12y ago

I'm sure many of our parents or relatives think similar things about computer terminology. "I can't connect to Internet Explorer" "You mean the internet, and your browser is called Chrome..." "Whatever, same thing. Just fix it." That does not make that terminology incorrect.