5 ms·

I'm gonna venture a guess here, and there's a decent chance you're going to respond poorly to it and think I'm just being an asshole, or do some rationalization

I'm gonna venture a guess here, and there's a decent chance you're going to respond poorly to it and think I'm just being an asshole, or do some rationalization and throw my opinion away. But I promise: I'm not just trying to put you down. At least consider it. > I can't seem to get my foot in the door anywhere to do anything from level one help desk work to anything else. Maybe it's how you come across personally; whether that's in interviews, or cover letters, or introductions. A good hiring process is probably in the 60/40 ratio of talent/personality. If you're a complete 0 in the personality department, you're probably not going to get hired unless you're a Carmack-level talent. Some places will skew that one way or the other, but I doubt it'll ever go more then 75/25 either way unless you find somewhere completely dysfunctional. Saying things like: > I always bluffed my way in to jobs I was completely unqualified for and pulled it off quite well are usually red flags for me, personality-wise. It reeks a little of someone who constantly needs to publicly validate themselves as "the smartest person in the room," and ends up not accepting feedback very well (if at all). To me, self-reflection, the acceptance that maybe you're not as talented as you think, and striving to constantly be better are critical parts of being a professional. It's sorta like that person in school who constantly made sure to tell everyone that they didn't study and still aced the exam - most people don't enjoy working with or talking to that person for any extended period of time. Anyway, I'm not gonna sit here and shit on you. We've all got our things. Just maybe some food for thought.

tfg4k 12y ago
Absolutely valid. I really appreciate any comment with any advice whatsoever. Thank you!
tfg4k 12y ago
I feel like I should say this. Saying things like: > I always bluffed my way in to jobs I was completely unqualified for and pulled it off quite well are usually red flags for me, personality-wise. I have worked with people like the person you probably think I am because of how that came across. I was just trying to honestly express one of the few things that I do have going for me as opposed to just listing things that I don't.
- ChainsawSurgery 12y ago
  Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you shouldn't have confidence in your abilities. And if that truly is the case, then I think it's a great quality to have. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person and not a loudmouth jackass. However, as the quote goes, "That's the problem with first impressions. You only get to make one." People tend to be on their guard when interacting with someone for the first time - even if that interaction is just reading a cover letter. Things that your friends wouldn't blink an eye at can easily become reasons the hiring manager tosses out your resume, and unfortunately you rarely get a chance to explain yourself or even feedback that you did something wrong. The best part is that fixing this doesn't involve a certification program, or spending more money, or anything like that. Maybe just have a couple people read over your cover letters or do mock interviews with you (not sure where you're getting stopped in the process, so can't give specifics there). Maybe try it with someone not super close to you (maybe a former co-worker?) who'll bring up something you're saying or doing that might seem innocuous but is raising alarms somewhere.
  - tfg4k 12y ago
    You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be another person out there who gets in after several weeks of consideration due to a number of reasons (relocation, having no professional experience and another candidate may have done an internship, etc.) Before you say it, because were this the other way round, I'd say it: It has much less to do with 'me' than it does with a combination of my geographical location, and being a semi-self employed consultant/contractor/whatever they call it anymore, as opposed to having had a regular day job for the last few years. [edit due to being a n00b on how to post here]
    - ChainsawSurgery 12y ago
      Hm, well I'm not going to try and divine the source of your woes here since I'm obviously a stranger who has little context about your life and can only offer broad, general advice, but I will leave you with two thoughts: > I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. I think most of us know when an interview goes really poorly, but my personal stance towards most interviews is that if I wasn't offered a position after an interview it's because I didn't interview well enough. Now it may be the case that they had some ridiculous or completely arbitrary standards for the interview, and I may be fine with the fact that the interview didn't go well, but I wouldn't necessarily say I interviewed well if I wasn't offered the position. I say 'most' because that might happen (I interviewed amazingly well and they didn't pick me for some stupid reason) once or twice, but if it's a consistent pattern than I would start looking at the common denominator. > It has much less to do with 'me' than it does with a combination of my geographical location, and being a semi-self employed consultant/contractor/whatever they call it anymore, as opposed to having had a regular day job for the last few years. Again I can't speak for your personal situation or pretend to understand, so take this with a huge grain of salt, but my experience with professional employment (even outside of tech) has been that these are things many companies are willing to overlook for the right candidate. If it was something they were truly unwilling to budge on, they wouldn't have wasted the time to interview you. You would've been screened out before anyone even picked up the phone to talk to you.
hackinthebochs 12y ago
Or perhaps he was just establishing context so we could better answer his question? There's no reason to assume a personality defect because he was communicating honestly about the situation he finds himself in.
- tfg4k 12y ago
  No, I found it helpful. It's good to know what other people get from the post. I was super nervous because it was my first OP and I hit this site daily for a few hours at least. My post was poorly written and I appreciate any criticism as well as any advice or even just busting my chops! Thanks for your input!
- ChainsawSurgery 12y ago
  Sure, and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not a jackass and perhaps just phrased things in a way that set off an alarm in my head. If I really thought he was a total git, I wouldn't have responded at all. However on the off-chance that some of that is leaking into interviews or cover letters, it's probably worth remediation.
  - hackinthebochs 12y ago
    But that's the thing though, there is no way any mention of being unusually smart or capable would not have been received by you negatively. We've gotten to the point where we can't honestly acknowledge our strengths without someone feeling slighted by it and then judging us for it. We see it all the time in fact, anyone who is publicly recognized for a great thing they did must show a proper amount of deference and humility, otherwise they are seen as being pompous or full of themselves. This shouldn't be the case.

tfg4k 12y ago

Absolutely valid. I really appreciate any comment with any advice whatsoever. Thank you!

tfg4k 12y ago

I feel like I should say this. Saying things like: > I always bluffed my way in to jobs I was completely unqualified for and pulled it off quite well are usually red flags for me, personality-wise. I have worked with people like the person you probably think I am because of how that came across. I was just trying to honestly express one of the few things that I do have going for me as opposed to just listing things that I don't.

ChainsawSurgery 12y ago
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you shouldn't have confidence in your abilities. And if that truly is the case, then I think it's a great quality to have. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person and not a loudmouth jackass. However, as the quote goes, "That's the problem with first impressions. You only get to make one." People tend to be on their guard when interacting with someone for the first time - even if that interaction is just reading a cover letter. Things that your friends wouldn't blink an eye at can easily become reasons the hiring manager tosses out your resume, and unfortunately you rarely get a chance to explain yourself or even feedback that you did something wrong. The best part is that fixing this doesn't involve a certification program, or spending more money, or anything like that. Maybe just have a couple people read over your cover letters or do mock interviews with you (not sure where you're getting stopped in the process, so can't give specifics there). Maybe try it with someone not super close to you (maybe a former co-worker?) who'll bring up something you're saying or doing that might seem innocuous but is raising alarms somewhere.
- tfg4k 12y ago
  You're totally on-point here. My resume is a disaster because I'm bad at writing them. I think I just filled in the blanks on an old Word template the first time I made one. Lets just say that I haven't gotten better at it. I do get contacted for interviews and solicited for resumes on a semi-regular basis. I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. Thing is, there seems to always be another person out there who gets in after several weeks of consideration due to a number of reasons (relocation, having no professional experience and another candidate may have done an internship, etc.) Before you say it, because were this the other way round, I'd say it: It has much less to do with 'me' than it does with a combination of my geographical location, and being a semi-self employed consultant/contractor/whatever they call it anymore, as opposed to having had a regular day job for the last few years. [edit due to being a n00b on how to post here]
  - ChainsawSurgery 12y ago
    Hm, well I'm not going to try and divine the source of your woes here since I'm obviously a stranger who has little context about your life and can only offer broad, general advice, but I will leave you with two thoughts: > I interview well and am quite easy to deal with on an interpersonal level. I think most of us know when an interview goes really poorly, but my personal stance towards most interviews is that if I wasn't offered a position after an interview it's because I didn't interview well enough. Now it may be the case that they had some ridiculous or completely arbitrary standards for the interview, and I may be fine with the fact that the interview didn't go well, but I wouldn't necessarily say I interviewed well if I wasn't offered the position. I say 'most' because that might happen (I interviewed amazingly well and they didn't pick me for some stupid reason) once or twice, but if it's a consistent pattern than I would start looking at the common denominator. > It has much less to do with 'me' than it does with a combination of my geographical location, and being a semi-self employed consultant/contractor/whatever they call it anymore, as opposed to having had a regular day job for the last few years. Again I can't speak for your personal situation or pretend to understand, so take this with a huge grain of salt, but my experience with professional employment (even outside of tech) has been that these are things many companies are willing to overlook for the right candidate. If it was something they were truly unwilling to budge on, they wouldn't have wasted the time to interview you. You would've been screened out before anyone even picked up the phone to talk to you.

hackinthebochs 12y ago

Or perhaps he was just establishing context so we could better answer his question? There's no reason to assume a personality defect because he was communicating honestly about the situation he finds himself in.

tfg4k 12y ago
No, I found it helpful. It's good to know what other people get from the post. I was super nervous because it was my first OP and I hit this site daily for a few hours at least. My post was poorly written and I appreciate any criticism as well as any advice or even just busting my chops! Thanks for your input!
ChainsawSurgery 12y ago
Sure, and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not a jackass and perhaps just phrased things in a way that set off an alarm in my head. If I really thought he was a total git, I wouldn't have responded at all. However on the off-chance that some of that is leaking into interviews or cover letters, it's probably worth remediation.
- hackinthebochs 12y ago
  But that's the thing though, there is no way any mention of being unusually smart or capable would not have been received by you negatively. We've gotten to the point where we can't honestly acknowledge our strengths without someone feeling slighted by it and then judging us for it. We see it all the time in fact, anyone who is publicly recognized for a great thing they did must show a proper amount of deference and humility, otherwise they are seen as being pompous or full of themselves. This shouldn't be the case.