3 ms·

Yes, refcount is stored for every object, but ARC is not able to detect cycles.

by cfrs 12y ago

berdario 12y ago
To help with this, both Python and ObjC have weak references https://docs.python.org/3/library/weakref.html https://docs.python.org/3/library/weakref.html
- cfrs 12y ago
  AFAIK python have kind of cycles detector enabled by default.
  - berdario 12y ago
    Sort of, CPython has both reference counting and a normal Garbage Collection. You can disable the latter and still avoid memory leaks as long as you don't have cycles
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  Weak references don't primarily exist to deal with cycles, and cycles generally often involve necessarily strong references even in systems that support weak references. (That is, e.g., cycles where A needs to be reachable if B is reachable and vice versa, such that a weak reference that allowed B to be disposed while A was reachable or vice versa would not be acceptable. A system that can detect cyclic garbage will still be able to collect both A and B -- connected by strong references -- when neither can be reached from the rest of the program.)
  - mst 12y ago
    So then you play pass-the-strong-reference in a destructor - i.e. if A goes out of scope the A->B ref is weakened and the B->A ref is strengthened, then vice versa if required. We did this for DBIx::Class in perl, thereby keeping full liveness but still getting timely destruction for connection objects. It was a trifle insane to get right, but it works extremely well.
  - gilgoomesh 12y ago
    I don't think that's true. The standard use case for weak references in Objective-C is a child-to-parent reference. The parent holds a strong reference to the child and children hold weak references to their parents, avoiding potential cycles. In fact, part of good memory management in a reference counted system is that you should always have a hierarchy to your data structures so it never makes sense to have an actual strong reference loop.

Yes, refcount is stored for every object, but ARC is not able to detect cycles.

by cfrs 12y ago

Yes, refcount is stored for every object, but ARC is not able to detect cycles.

To help with this, both Python and ObjC have weak references https://docs.python.org/3/library/weakref.html https://docs.python.org/3/library/weakref.html

cfrs 12y ago
AFAIK python have kind of cycles detector enabled by default.
- berdario 12y ago
  Sort of, CPython has both reference counting and a normal Garbage Collection. You can disable the latter and still avoid memory leaks as long as you don't have cycles
dragonwriter 12y ago
Weak references don't primarily exist to deal with cycles, and cycles generally often involve necessarily strong references even in systems that support weak references. (That is, e.g., cycles where A needs to be reachable if B is reachable and vice versa, such that a weak reference that allowed B to be disposed while A was reachable or vice versa would not be acceptable. A system that can detect cyclic garbage will still be able to collect both A and B -- connected by strong references -- when neither can be reached from the rest of the program.)
- mst 12y ago
  So then you play pass-the-strong-reference in a destructor - i.e. if A goes out of scope the A->B ref is weakened and the B->A ref is strengthened, then vice versa if required. We did this for DBIx::Class in perl, thereby keeping full liveness but still getting timely destruction for connection objects. It was a trifle insane to get right, but it works extremely well.
- gilgoomesh 12y ago
  I don't think that's true. The standard use case for weak references in Objective-C is a child-to-parent reference. The parent holds a strong reference to the child and children hold weak references to their parents, avoiding potential cycles. In fact, part of good memory management in a reference counted system is that you should always have a hierarchy to your data structures so it never makes sense to have an actual strong reference loop.