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The Magna Carta. Civilisation is not a working air-con and LTE. Saudi Arabia has those, and it is not a 'civilisation'. Civilisation is primarily a political

The Magna Carta. Civilisation is not a working air-con and LTE. Saudi Arabia has those, and it is not a 'civilisation'. Civilisation is primarily a political order built on liberal tolerance of multiple sources of value, and the rule of law. Roman civilisation, at least up till Constantine 1, was a civilisation.

maaku 12y ago
Protection of the Church and feudal system?
- noir-york 12y ago
  Don't let the political concerns of the times blind you to the core principles. With that same argument Machiavelli is not relevant because his advice was intended for a medieval Italian prince.
selimthegrim 12y ago
Why not the Constitution rather than Magna Carta (no article is properly necessary)? http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/al-qaeda-vs-magna-carta http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/al-qaeda-vs-magna-ca...
- noir-york 12y ago
  For the same reason that the Origin of Species and Darwin are credited with discovering evolution even though Origin doesn't get evolution really right. Or Greek democracy - not a true democracy in the modern sense - suffrage was limited for free men. The key point of the Magna Carta is that it codified the principle of the rule of law, even if it was a limited to aristocrats. The side-effect is that it implied that a different source of value - human reason in the shape of laws - was legitimate, and not the absolute rule of the king.
  - dTal 12y ago
    In what way did On the Origin of Species not "get it right"? It necessarily has holes as Darwin was unaware of DNA or horizontal gene transfer, but he nailed the basic mechanism, and anticipated and addressed many of the criticisms that would be leveled.
    - noir-york 12y ago
      Right, Darwin nailed the principle of evolution but Origin is now primarily a (very important) historical document, not the field book of modern evolutionary biologists, for some of the reasons that you give, DNA, punctuated equilibrium, etc. Likewise with Magna Carta - its an important historical document which laid down the principle.
CapitalistCartr 12y ago
You don't get to substitute your own definitions for the shared ones. Civilization has a common meaning and your definition isn't it.
- noir-york 12y ago
  "Shared" by who? And whose definition should we use? The "common" one, or say, the one used by academics. I woult not claim that my "definition" is found in books, but I chose my words carefully (I have a background in political philosophy)
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maaku 12y ago

Protection of the Church and feudal system?

noir-york 12y ago
Don't let the political concerns of the times blind you to the core principles. With that same argument Machiavelli is not relevant because his advice was intended for a medieval Italian prince.

selimthegrim 12y ago

Why not the Constitution rather than Magna Carta (no article is properly necessary)? http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/al-qaeda-vs-magna-carta http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/al-qaeda-vs-magna-ca...

noir-york 12y ago
For the same reason that the Origin of Species and Darwin are credited with discovering evolution even though Origin doesn't get evolution really right. Or Greek democracy - not a true democracy in the modern sense - suffrage was limited for free men. The key point of the Magna Carta is that it codified the principle of the rule of law, even if it was a limited to aristocrats. The side-effect is that it implied that a different source of value - human reason in the shape of laws - was legitimate, and not the absolute rule of the king.
- dTal 12y ago
  In what way did On the Origin of Species not "get it right"? It necessarily has holes as Darwin was unaware of DNA or horizontal gene transfer, but he nailed the basic mechanism, and anticipated and addressed many of the criticisms that would be leveled.
  - noir-york 12y ago
    Right, Darwin nailed the principle of evolution but Origin is now primarily a (very important) historical document, not the field book of modern evolutionary biologists, for some of the reasons that you give, DNA, punctuated equilibrium, etc. Likewise with Magna Carta - its an important historical document which laid down the principle.

CapitalistCartr 12y ago

You don't get to substitute your own definitions for the shared ones. Civilization has a common meaning and your definition isn't it.

noir-york 12y ago
"Shared" by who? And whose definition should we use? The "common" one, or say, the one used by academics. I woult not claim that my "definition" is found in books, but I chose my words carefully (I have a background in political philosophy)

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