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Why Do People Try So Hard to Avoid Paying Taxes?

billhendricksjr 12y ago
I know this is a bit OT, but the startup world has a fairly strong libertarian ethos, so I'm particularity interested in getting your feedback. Why do most Americans hate paying their taxes and go to such extreme measures to minimize the amount of tax they pay?
- b6 12y ago
  > Why do most Americans hate paying their taxes and go to such extreme measures to minimize the amount of tax they pay? Hmm, it seems hard to know for certain, but I don't think it's true that "most" Americans "hate" paying taxes and go to "extreme" measures to minimize them. I think it's closer to the truth to say that many Americans have a general feeling that at a significant fraction of the money they spend in taxes goes toward projects that don't benefit them, or maybe even toward projects they oppose. I think many, if not most, Americans feel as if they have no meaningful way to influence the federal government. I think there's also a feeling that in general, it would be better for government to be smaller, closer, and more direct.
- Quequau 12y ago
  The theory I've created since being an expat is: The United States government spends an extraordinary amount of money on stuff that's not really tangible, everything from gargantuan military to corporate level subsidies and interest payments on debt. The ways taxes are now collected have shuffled the obvious burden to individuals earning more than about $640K per year in real wages. The United States has, for decades, ignored & postponed maintenance, repair, and upgrades to infrastructure like Water, Sewer, Roads, Bridges, Rail, Power, and Communication and public facilities like schools, parks, and libraries. The United States is not number one. Not in any of the important metrics about societies that actually matter to regular people. So, thinking about the average Joe who's paying way more than his parents did in taxes and what does he get for it in return? Not a lot that is visible or even desirable (after all, he's not yet retired and receiving any benefits from Social Security or Medicare) and meanwhile all those things that are desirable and/or visible are in a state of disarray, disrepair, or disrepute. Even the phrase "Good enough enough for government work" has been twisted into its opposite at this point. Overlay all that on to how obviously disconnected the American political system is from regular Americans and the end result is an alienation which manifested itself in folks not liking to pay taxes.
  - billhendricksjr 12y ago
    Feeling disconnected from how one's taxes are spent is an excellent point.
morkfromork 12y ago
Depending on the tax it can be complicated and time consuming. If you do not put in the effort then you might overpay or pay more than your fellow tax payer. You face stiff penalties if you make a mistake in the complicated forms. Give the government everything and the national debt still goes up.
everyone 12y ago
A thought just struck me. The phrase 'death and taxes' must have been coined by a wealthy or upper class individual (Daniel Defoe it turns out) If your well-off these will be the only hardships you will certainly face. Defoes less well-off contemporaries would probably rate the inevitable struggles to attain adequate food, clothes and shelter as more relevant certainties.
Beached 12y ago
I don't think it's that people HATE paying taxes, its that a large portion of their lively hood will be taken if they do not maximize their deductions. As an employer, about 10% of my salary is paid to Fed, State, and local taxes. As a W-2 Employee of my company, about 25% of my income is taken out of my paycheck if I claim to deductions. This means the government is getting 35% of my salary for doing, what I consider, very little. This is money I could use to boost salary, pay for additional or better benefits, or hire additional employee's. My father-in law would have to pay about 70% of his income if you include Federal, State, and city taxes with no deductions. Throw in Tithe for the church and you can imagine why one would do all they can to put money away into pre-tax accounts and claim everything you can. I don't hate taxes, they are necessary, but I do not agree with the way they are spent in most instances. The USA should be a union of states collectively working together, but the country is increasingly moving towards a single state, with a one size fits all policy. As it stands now, each state is incredibly different and policies made for California are in no way fit for Alaska or New York. Federal taxes should be significantly lower then they are now and lower then state taxes, and should be spend on defense, and inter state mediation. State taxes should get a small boost and provide services to its residents inside the state only. Reduce the scope of where tax dollars are spent and what they are spent on, and efficiency will go up, citizens will have more money in their pockets to fuel the consuming engine of America, and huge government programs that sweep up everyone's communications in the country will be harder to fund. Not to mention people will get to vote with their bodies(By moving to a new state), which is far more effective then voting for the president.
Scotty2 12y ago
I view taxes like stamps, don't like to pay for them. Perhaps I am taking it for granted, but seems like they take a large chunk. I want to get as much back as possible, especially if I am not ever able to take advantage of any special programs and gov't assistance, and may never see my social security. In my mind, I am paying for other people is my simplified answer.
JoeAltmaier 12y ago
I don't think much about it. Lots of people are like me. They pay somebody to do their taxes, and never think about it again. Is that 'trying so hard'? Doesn't seem like it.
- billhendricksjr 12y ago
  I'm sure there are lots of people like you, but I don't think you're the majority. And although you are not trying hard, presumably your accountant is on your behalf and you're paying him/her good $ to do so.

I know this is a bit OT, but the startup world has a fairly strong libertarian ethos, so I'm particularity interested in getting your feedback. Why do most Americans hate paying their taxes and go to such extreme measures to minimize the amount of tax they pay?

b6 12y ago
> Why do most Americans hate paying their taxes and go to such extreme measures to minimize the amount of tax they pay? Hmm, it seems hard to know for certain, but I don't think it's true that "most" Americans "hate" paying taxes and go to "extreme" measures to minimize them. I think it's closer to the truth to say that many Americans have a general feeling that at a significant fraction of the money they spend in taxes goes toward projects that don't benefit them, or maybe even toward projects they oppose. I think many, if not most, Americans feel as if they have no meaningful way to influence the federal government. I think there's also a feeling that in general, it would be better for government to be smaller, closer, and more direct.
Quequau 12y ago
The theory I've created since being an expat is: The United States government spends an extraordinary amount of money on stuff that's not really tangible, everything from gargantuan military to corporate level subsidies and interest payments on debt. The ways taxes are now collected have shuffled the obvious burden to individuals earning more than about $640K per year in real wages. The United States has, for decades, ignored & postponed maintenance, repair, and upgrades to infrastructure like Water, Sewer, Roads, Bridges, Rail, Power, and Communication and public facilities like schools, parks, and libraries. The United States is not number one. Not in any of the important metrics about societies that actually matter to regular people. So, thinking about the average Joe who's paying way more than his parents did in taxes and what does he get for it in return? Not a lot that is visible or even desirable (after all, he's not yet retired and receiving any benefits from Social Security or Medicare) and meanwhile all those things that are desirable and/or visible are in a state of disarray, disrepair, or disrepute. Even the phrase "Good enough enough for government work" has been twisted into its opposite at this point. Overlay all that on to how obviously disconnected the American political system is from regular Americans and the end result is an alienation which manifested itself in folks not liking to pay taxes.
- billhendricksjr 12y ago
  Feeling disconnected from how one's taxes are spent is an excellent point.

morkfromork 12y ago

Depending on the tax it can be complicated and time consuming. If you do not put in the effort then you might overpay or pay more than your fellow tax payer. You face stiff penalties if you make a mistake in the complicated forms. Give the government everything and the national debt still goes up.

everyone 12y ago

A thought just struck me. The phrase 'death and taxes' must have been coined by a wealthy or upper class individual (Daniel Defoe it turns out) If your well-off these will be the only hardships you will certainly face. Defoes less well-off contemporaries would probably rate the inevitable struggles to attain adequate food, clothes and shelter as more relevant certainties.

Beached 12y ago

I don't think it's that people HATE paying taxes, its that a large portion of their lively hood will be taken if they do not maximize their deductions. As an employer, about 10% of my salary is paid to Fed, State, and local taxes. As a W-2 Employee of my company, about 25% of my income is taken out of my paycheck if I claim to deductions. This means the government is getting 35% of my salary for doing, what I consider, very little. This is money I could use to boost salary, pay for additional or better benefits, or hire additional employee's. My father-in law would have to pay about 70% of his income if you include Federal, State, and city taxes with no deductions. Throw in Tithe for the church and you can imagine why one would do all they can to put money away into pre-tax accounts and claim everything you can. I don't hate taxes, they are necessary, but I do not agree with the way they are spent in most instances. The USA should be a union of states collectively working together, but the country is increasingly moving towards a single state, with a one size fits all policy. As it stands now, each state is incredibly different and policies made for California are in no way fit for Alaska or New York. Federal taxes should be significantly lower then they are now and lower then state taxes, and should be spend on defense, and inter state mediation. State taxes should get a small boost and provide services to its residents inside the state only. Reduce the scope of where tax dollars are spent and what they are spent on, and efficiency will go up, citizens will have more money in their pockets to fuel the consuming engine of America, and huge government programs that sweep up everyone's communications in the country will be harder to fund. Not to mention people will get to vote with their bodies(By moving to a new state), which is far more effective then voting for the president.

Scotty2 12y ago

I view taxes like stamps, don't like to pay for them. Perhaps I am taking it for granted, but seems like they take a large chunk. I want to get as much back as possible, especially if I am not ever able to take advantage of any special programs and gov't assistance, and may never see my social security. In my mind, I am paying for other people is my simplified answer.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

I don't think much about it. Lots of people are like me. They pay somebody to do their taxes, and never think about it again. Is that 'trying so hard'? Doesn't seem like it.

billhendricksjr 12y ago
I'm sure there are lots of people like you, but I don't think you're the majority. And although you are not trying hard, presumably your accountant is on your behalf and you're paying him/her good $ to do so.