6 ms·

Yes, and they do all that with the user's consent.

userbinator 12y ago
You had to agree to have Superfish installed too, if Lenovo is to be believed.
dredmorbius 12y ago
Um, really? How informed is that consent? What of sites that unilaterally change rules retroactively? Or fail to provide reasonable alternatives? Facebook does all of the above. To an extent that I don't trust it, and don't use it. But there are plenty of other services which wave the "but you consented!" flag. Google comes to mind, and I've had my set of issues with them as well.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  Umm, if you're using Facebook, it should be fairly obvious that you are giving your information to Facebook. Yes, I call that an informed consent.
  - Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd 12y ago
    And when you're browsing a web site with a Facebook Like button (that you don't click on), you're giving information about your browsing habits to Facebook and it's totally non-obvious.
    - ptaipale 12y ago
      Sorry, I don't understand. What does it mean that I am browsing a web site with a Facebook Like button that I don't click on?
      - wampus 12y ago
        If the button image is hosted on Facebook's servers (and it commonly is), they have a log of your request for it, including the page it was on (from the "Referer" header). This request is sent when you load the page, without the need to click on the button. Every site you visit that includes a Facebook resource gives them the ability to collect data about you and your habits. These are often part of a site's template, included without regard to the page it might appear on. You'd be surprised what a Referer URL can reveal about you.
        TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
        It's not just an image, either. It's typically a widget that may even show you if your friends also liked the page.
        ptaipale 12y ago
        And, in fact, one should not trust that even if a page says my friends liked the page, they actually did.
        ptaipale 12y ago
        Oh, that's what you meant. It was too obvious to me :) I mean, of course elements that are embedded in Web pages may be traced by the party who sends them (and pages very often include off-site content).
    - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
      Well, it is at least in the T&Cs.

You had to agree to have Superfish installed too, if Lenovo is to be believed.

Um, really? How informed is that consent? What of sites that unilaterally change rules retroactively? Or fail to provide reasonable alternatives? Facebook does all of the above. To an extent that I don't trust it, and don't use it. But there are plenty of other services which wave the "but you consented!" flag. Google comes to mind, and I've had my set of issues with them as well.

ptaipale 12y ago
Umm, if you're using Facebook, it should be fairly obvious that you are giving your information to Facebook. Yes, I call that an informed consent.
- Ded7xSEoPKYNsDd 12y ago
  And when you're browsing a web site with a Facebook Like button (that you don't click on), you're giving information about your browsing habits to Facebook and it's totally non-obvious.
  - ptaipale 12y ago
    Sorry, I don't understand. What does it mean that I am browsing a web site with a Facebook Like button that I don't click on?
    - wampus 12y ago
      If the button image is hosted on Facebook's servers (and it commonly is), they have a log of your request for it, including the page it was on (from the "Referer" header). This request is sent when you load the page, without the need to click on the button. Every site you visit that includes a Facebook resource gives them the ability to collect data about you and your habits. These are often part of a site's template, included without regard to the page it might appear on. You'd be surprised what a Referer URL can reveal about you.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
        It's not just an image, either. It's typically a widget that may even show you if your friends also liked the page.
        ptaipale 12y ago
        And, in fact, one should not trust that even if a page says my friends liked the page, they actually did.
      - ptaipale 12y ago
        Oh, that's what you meant. It was too obvious to me :) I mean, of course elements that are embedded in Web pages may be traced by the party who sends them (and pages very often include off-site content).
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    Well, it is at least in the T&Cs.