3 ms·

You're talking about something else - individual words (at least in this passage) are certainly known to everybody. But what % of English speakers do you think

by omonra 12y ago

You're talking about something else - individual words (at least in this passage) are certainly known to everybody. But what % of English speakers do you think can understand the passage?

pcrh 12y ago
Understanding the English-speaking world's most famous poet and playwriter might be beyond the abilities of some people, that is for sure. It doesn't mean, though, that the language used is deliberately obscure. I would estimate that most high school graduates in the UK could correctly parse the passage posted, given enough time. Those with education specifically in English would parse it at first pass.
pcrh 12y ago
To clarify: what is it that you do not understand about the posted passage?
- omonra 12y ago
  Honestly - I don't understand anything. Imagine you had an English text with half the words substituted with Dutch ones (that look similar but make no sense). So you might think you understand 2-3 words in a row only to come across the fourth word that seems key for the line but means nothing to you in the given context.
  - pcrh 12y ago
    What makes it harder to understand is not the vocabulary, but the grammar, as well as Shakespeare's sometimes idiosyncratic use of word meaning. For example, "strain" here means a portion of music, which while not its most common meaning, is certainly within the abilities of most educated native speakers of English to understand, at least from context.
    - omonra 12y ago
      That's exactly what I mean - words that we otherwise know are used with completely different meaning, which renders the text unintelligible. I disagree with you completely that 'most educated native speakers' can understand this. By the same token one can say that most native English speakers can solve differential equations :) The definition of strain you mention is #30 in the dictionary - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strain http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strain. Can you cite its use in that meaning in a contemporary newspaper or magazine?
      - pcrh 12y ago
        As to usage of "strain" in music, a quick search lead me to this article from the US dated 16 Feb 2015 [1] "When the trumpets blare and the snares rattle during the opening strain of John Phillip Souza’s The Washington Post March..." I not proposing that Shakespeare is the easiest thing to read, but merely suggesting that it is not as inaccessible as it might first appear. [1]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/homestead/article10468706.html http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/h...
      - pcrh 12y ago
        By the way, I found the "Spark Notes" for "If Music be the food of love". It's a dreadful lump when the poetry is gone, but here it is: "If it’s true that music makes people more in love, keep playing. Give me too much of it, so I’ll get sick of it and stop loving. Play that part again! It sounded sad. Oh, it sounded like a sweet breeze blowing gently over a bank of violets, taking their scent with it. That’s enough. Stop. It doesn’t sound as sweet as it did before. Oh, love is so restless! That, despite it's ability to encompass as much as the sea, is impenetrable, to anything, cannot be bought, yet becomes cheap. Even if fleeting, though, love is so varied and rich that it is the highest pinnacle of experience.

by omonra 12y ago

You're talking about something else - individual words (at least in this passage) are certainly known to everybody. But what % of English speakers do you think can understand the passage?

pcrh 12y ago

Understanding the English-speaking world's most famous poet and playwriter might be beyond the abilities of some people, that is for sure. It doesn't mean, though, that the language used is deliberately obscure. I would estimate that most high school graduates in the UK could correctly parse the passage posted, given enough time. Those with education specifically in English would parse it at first pass.

pcrh 12y ago

To clarify: what is it that you do not understand about the posted passage?

omonra 12y ago
Honestly - I don't understand anything. Imagine you had an English text with half the words substituted with Dutch ones (that look similar but make no sense). So you might think you understand 2-3 words in a row only to come across the fourth word that seems key for the line but means nothing to you in the given context.
- pcrh 12y ago
  What makes it harder to understand is not the vocabulary, but the grammar, as well as Shakespeare's sometimes idiosyncratic use of word meaning. For example, "strain" here means a portion of music, which while not its most common meaning, is certainly within the abilities of most educated native speakers of English to understand, at least from context.
  - omonra 12y ago
    That's exactly what I mean - words that we otherwise know are used with completely different meaning, which renders the text unintelligible. I disagree with you completely that 'most educated native speakers' can understand this. By the same token one can say that most native English speakers can solve differential equations :) The definition of strain you mention is #30 in the dictionary - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strain http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strain. Can you cite its use in that meaning in a contemporary newspaper or magazine?
    - pcrh 12y ago
      As to usage of "strain" in music, a quick search lead me to this article from the US dated 16 Feb 2015 [1] "When the trumpets blare and the snares rattle during the opening strain of John Phillip Souza’s The Washington Post March..." I not proposing that Shakespeare is the easiest thing to read, but merely suggesting that it is not as inaccessible as it might first appear. [1]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/homestead/article10468706.html http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/h...
    - pcrh 12y ago
      By the way, I found the "Spark Notes" for "If Music be the food of love". It's a dreadful lump when the poetry is gone, but here it is: "If it’s true that music makes people more in love, keep playing. Give me too much of it, so I’ll get sick of it and stop loving. Play that part again! It sounded sad. Oh, it sounded like a sweet breeze blowing gently over a bank of violets, taking their scent with it. That’s enough. Stop. It doesn’t sound as sweet as it did before. Oh, love is so restless! That, despite it's ability to encompass as much as the sea, is impenetrable, to anything, cannot be bought, yet becomes cheap. Even if fleeting, though, love is so varied and rich that it is the highest pinnacle of experience.