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You're right that kids need to buckle down at some point, but it doesn't help to fight their biology at the same time. Just like how high schooler's sleep rhyth

You're right that kids need to buckle down at some point, but it doesn't help to fight their biology at the same time. Just like how high schooler's sleep rhythm is such that they want to stay up late and sleep in, yet we still make them get to school by 7:40am. http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/Let-Them-Sleep-AAP-Recommends-Delaying-Start-Times-of-Middle-and-High-Schools-to-Combat-Teen-Sleep-Deprivation.aspx http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/...

corin_ 12y ago
I'd hope that AAP would have this right, but since they don't cite any studies - my instinct would be to assume that teenagers don't have a specific problem getting to sleep earlier other than social/cultural. It's generally understood for adults that you can train yourself to fit a different schedule (to become a "night person" or a "morning person"), what is it that makes this different for teenagers? Certainly when I was a teenager my failings to be alert in the morning were based on not going to bed early enough because of things I wanted to do and lack of self-discipline, not because of biological reasons. And therefore, if school times were moved back would teenagers not just stay up later and still not sleep enough?
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829130.100-why-teenagers-really-do-need-an-extra-hour-in-bed.html#.VOeVsXVGjUY http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829130.100-why-teena...
  - corin_ 12y ago
    Thanks - though that still doesn't offer any details on why they believe there is a biological cause, not just a social cause. > Adolescents are increasingly using stimulants to compensate for sleep loss, and caffeinated and/or sugary drinks are the usual choice. The half-life of caffeine is 5 to 9 hours. So a caffeinated drink late in the day delays sleep at night. Tiredness also increases the likelihood of taking up smoking. > Collectively, a day of caffeine and nicotine consumption, the biological tendency for delayed sleep and the increased alertness promoted by computer or cellphone use generates what Carskadon calls a "perfect storm" for delayed sleep in teenagers. Having looked at the full paper about school start times from AAP [1] it cites three papers on this subject [2] [3] [4], I'll come back with another comment if I manage to dive deeper into the rabbit hole on those... (I'm not saying there isn't a biological cause, just that since my gut instinct is that it would be caused by cultural reasons I'm interested to see the reasoning behind thinking there are biological reasons too.) [1] http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/08/19/peds.2014-1697 http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/08/... [2] Frey S, Balu S, Greusing S, Rothen N, Cajochen C. Consequences of the timing of menarche on female adolescent sleep phase preference. PLoS ONE. 2009;4(4):e5217 [3] Carskadon MA, Acebo C, Seifer R. Extended nights, sleep loss, and recovery sleep in adolescents. Arch Ital Biol. 2001;139(3):301–312 [4] Roenneberg T, Kuehnle T, Pramstaller PP, et al. A marker for the end of adolescence. Curr Biol. 2004;14(24):R1038–R1039

corin_ 12y ago

I'd hope that AAP would have this right, but since they don't cite any studies - my instinct would be to assume that teenagers don't have a specific problem getting to sleep earlier other than social/cultural. It's generally understood for adults that you can train yourself to fit a different schedule (to become a "night person" or a "morning person"), what is it that makes this different for teenagers? Certainly when I was a teenager my failings to be alert in the morning were based on not going to bed early enough because of things I wanted to do and lack of self-discipline, not because of biological reasons. And therefore, if school times were moved back would teenagers not just stay up later and still not sleep enough?

bryanlarsen 12y ago
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829130.100-why-teenagers-really-do-need-an-extra-hour-in-bed.html#.VOeVsXVGjUY http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829130.100-why-teena...
- corin_ 12y ago
  Thanks - though that still doesn't offer any details on why they believe there is a biological cause, not just a social cause. > Adolescents are increasingly using stimulants to compensate for sleep loss, and caffeinated and/or sugary drinks are the usual choice. The half-life of caffeine is 5 to 9 hours. So a caffeinated drink late in the day delays sleep at night. Tiredness also increases the likelihood of taking up smoking. > Collectively, a day of caffeine and nicotine consumption, the biological tendency for delayed sleep and the increased alertness promoted by computer or cellphone use generates what Carskadon calls a "perfect storm" for delayed sleep in teenagers. Having looked at the full paper about school start times from AAP [1] it cites three papers on this subject [2] [3] [4], I'll come back with another comment if I manage to dive deeper into the rabbit hole on those... (I'm not saying there isn't a biological cause, just that since my gut instinct is that it would be caused by cultural reasons I'm interested to see the reasoning behind thinking there are biological reasons too.) [1] http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/08/19/peds.2014-1697 http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/08/... [2] Frey S, Balu S, Greusing S, Rothen N, Cajochen C. Consequences of the timing of menarche on female adolescent sleep phase preference. PLoS ONE. 2009;4(4):e5217 [3] Carskadon MA, Acebo C, Seifer R. Extended nights, sleep loss, and recovery sleep in adolescents. Arch Ital Biol. 2001;139(3):301–312 [4] Roenneberg T, Kuehnle T, Pramstaller PP, et al. A marker for the end of adolescence. Curr Biol. 2004;14(24):R1038–R1039