10 ms·

Why schools are failing our boys

109 points by mycroft-holmes 12y ago

UnGravitas 12y ago
Replace "boy" or "son" with child and the only paragraph in the article which reads differently is this >Statistically speaking, boys now lag behind girls on every single academic measure; they also get in trouble and drop out of school much more frequently than girls. There are fewer boys in college than girls, and far more lost 20-something boys than 20-something girls. It certainly seems like schools are failing boys but I'm not sure that this particular failure has anything to do with it.
mhurron 12y ago
It's not failing boys, it's failing every child. I never had an issue with this, quite frankly classroom clowns were kind of rare at least when it came to actually disrupting the whole class. However > He hasn’t been allowed outside at school all week That never happened. We went outside, we played, we were able to expend our childhood energy. They are children, they do need somewhere and somehow to expend their energy.
- alistairSH 12y ago
  I'm sure there were weeks where I didn't get outside during school hours, but between PE in the gym (when cold/wet/whatever), music lessons, chorus, GT programs, and other enrichment, I was rarely stuck in the same room and same seat for more than a few hours at a time. If schools have changed in the last 25 years such that none of that out-of-classroom enrichment occurs, then yeah, we're failing out kids.
  - dhagz 12y ago
    There's still a good amount of out-of-classroom enrichment, however here in Georgia we've had a rather nasty cold snap that has prevented kids from going outside (county-wide requirement). How teachers respond to this extra time in the classroom is obviously up to them, but I know of one who had her kids do Zumba for the duration of recess instead of just using it for more instruction.
smegel 12y ago
Because they are, very deliberately, not tailoring education to meet their needs.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
beachstartup 12y ago
yeah, what could possibly go wrong with locking a bunch of 8 year old boys in a room, telling them they can't talk to each other, forcing them to do mind-numbing things they don't want to do, and depriving them of nearly all adult male contact? it's a system that's been hijacked by do-gooders doing anything but good.
blkhp19 12y ago
There are also plenty of boys and girls who don't have this problem. I was a bit of a trouble maker in elementary and middle school - enough to get a call home from the teacher once or twice a year - but I always did my work and gave a damn about my performance. I don't understand this parent. "I let my son play minecraft in the morning before school" - so your son is slacking off in school, but you're still giving him everything he wants? He's your son. He needs to be shown that sometimes, you have to suck it up and work, even when you don't want to. That's a tough lesson to teach an 8 year old, but it's something that parents should enforce early. Eventually, their kid will see that hard work and self control will pay off. Here's a novel idea - don't let your kid play minecraft until he starts doing better in school. That being said, I do think physical activity should be more common. If it's rainy or cold out, kids should be able to go to their school's gym for an extra PE class - or maybe be able to play minecraft on the school computers. Boys and girls needs to be able to do something like this throughout the day. Article like this will hopefully make schools rethink some things - but until change actually happens, this mom needs to take control instead of just throwing her hands up and telling her son "it's not your fault. now go play minecraft."
- dugfresh 12y ago
  I agree 100% with blkhp19
- user_0001 12y ago
  >If it's rainy or cold out, kids should be able to go to their school's gym for an extra PE class Nothing wrong with a bit of cold or wet. It's character building :) Send em outside
  - blkhp19 12y ago
    As a kid, I would have loved that! But can't you just picture the musty smell the classroom would have with 20 soaking wet kids? :p
- bjt 12y ago
  > so your son is slacking off in school, but you're still giving him everything he wants? I don't see how you get from playing Minecraft in the morning to her letting her son do "everything he wants". You're assuming that playing Minecraft is frivolous or negative or that shouldn't be allowed in the morning, much less encouraged. And you have little information on what other activities she has encouraged, permitted, or forbidden. It's tempting to pass judgment on other people's parenting. This temptation should be resisted.
elchief 12y ago
"Simply put, girls have better educational outcomes when taught by women, and boys are better off when taught by men" http://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ednext20064_68.pdf http://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ednext20064_68.... Pay teachers better and aim for 50% male teachers and consider going back to all boys schools and all girls schools with plenty of rules to ensure that both are treated fairly.
- golemotron 12y ago
  I agree but I'm sure that separate education would turn into a political minefield if outcomes are different between the sexes. It would be the 'separate but equal' issue with race all over again.
- Niten 12y ago
  I used to work for a school system that experimented with gendered classrooms. While it would be a mistake to extrapolate too much from our experience, those became the most successful classrooms at the elementary school in question. The boys did particularly well. Naturally the ACLU would rather fight to ban the practice outright than risk additional research possibly showing that this is a productive approach, at the expense of the preferred gender politics narrative.
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    I thought you were being melodramatic about the ACLU, but nope, not at all: https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/sometimes-it-only-takes-hour-get-picture-single-sex-program-wont-fly https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/sometimes-it-only-ta... I am all about gender equally but that seems crazy to me. As long as girls and boys receive the same standard of education then why should it matter? Seems like PC taken too far.
    - Niten 12y ago
      Same here, and sorry if that seemed hyperbolic. It's just extremely frustrating to me as someone who sees (most of) the ACLU's work as extremely important, and who has donated to them in the past.
PaulHoule 12y ago
There are lots of reasons. First of all, any organization that has men working with young children will eventually face accusations of pedophilia regardless of the reality. Also men seem less interested in day care and early childhood education so children see nothing but women teachers until high school. Just like blacks who have nothing but white teachers conclude that education is a "white thing", boys will conclude it is a girl thing. When I coached Kindergarten soccer (which is a lot of fun; I'll leave large-field soccer to the Europeans, but the game on a small field is exciting) I shaved my beard because I learned that it would scare some kids because they'd never seen anybody with a beard. There's also the problem that people mistake an obedient child for a "good child". There was this book http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Personality-Edition/dp/0964765004 http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Personality... which seemed so puzzled that people would "change" quickly when they fall into cults but the real thing is parents thought these kids had it together because they would do what they are told and when you put them in a new environment they do what L. Ron Hubbard tells them to do (i.e. no "change" at all) My son isn't in the habit of obedient and if somebody isn't pushing on him somewhat he will do nothing at all in a classroom with 20 kids. I talked with my superintendent about this at a PTA meeting and he told me I should sit back and let the experts deal with this. (Just before this he told the mother of a "special" child that he welcomes her as a partner in his education; that's because the state can set a fire under his ass) That's why my son is homeschooled.
- maratd 12y ago
  > That's why my son is homeschooled. I'm in a position where this is an option, but I'm concerned about social interaction? I think it's important for a child to spend substantial periods of time with his peers. How do you deal with this?
  - msandford 12y ago
    Homeschool co-op for whatever amount of time you think is appropriate. They can be anywhere from one day a month to several days a week.
  - aedocw 12y ago
skylan_q 12y ago
The resources that are available geared specifically toward the improvement of education have been allocated more towards girls and less towards boys than they were in the past. As a result, the academic performce of girls has improved relative to boys.
rayiner 12y ago
> Re-entry after winter break has not been easy for him. The rules and restrictions of school – Sit Still. Be Quiet. Do What You Are Told, Nothing More, Nothing Less. – have been grating on him, and it shows. > The lack of movement and rigid restrictions associated with modern schooling are killing my son’s soul. As an asian, I can't muster a lot of sympathy for this line of reasoning. Nobody would accuse asian countries of catering to girls rather than boys, but the schooling over there is even more "sit down, shut up, and do your work" than it is here in the U.S.
- trynumber9 12y ago
  China: 59% female teachers. Japan: 62.7% (primary), 54.8% (secondary) female teachers. USA: 87% female teachers. I think you're right, the order doesn't matter so much as where the order comes from.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    I'd love to see more male teachers. But I also think there's an (perhaps unconscious) sexist undertone that we need more male teachers because we can't expect boys to see women as proper authority figures.
    - pauleastlund 12y ago
      First, I do think some of it is not just teacher demographics; I think the learning style promoted in American schools serves girls, in the aggregate, better than it serves boys. But more directly addressing your post, I don't think the point about teacher demographics is that boys can't respect women; I think it's that they're less likely to see women as role models. I always tried to downplay this stuff -- race-blind-and-gender-blind and all that to treat all people equally -- but I have a son and three daughters now and in spite of us never really making it a Thing, gender is a Thing for them. My kids were curious about video games but my daughter got turned off by a lot of them because "how come so many of the characters are boys." No matter what I said, she couldn't get past that. She felt like video games weren't for her. Is it crazy that boys might subconsciously feel the same about school? "If it's for boys how come all the teachers are women?"
ianbicking 12y ago
A friend of mine posted her daughter's homework, which had a math problem like "What is 17 - 9?" then "Explain." Her daughter wrote something like "because it is". Which is all the damn explanation that should require. The friend did admit that her daughter later added an explanation. (To be fair, I think they were looking for something like "because 9 + 8 = 17" which isn't entirely unreasonable.) This is a pattern I have seen more, and I think is part of Common Core more generally. It makes some sense, but it also feels like they are aping good education. Yes, it is important that students have more than one way to approach a problem, that they understand the truth of the answer and not just the mechanism to produce it, and it is good if a child can work at articulating their thought processes. But, acknowledging that, the Common Core response is: add some more questions requiring the student to do those things. It's not supportive. Now, back to boys and girls. These vague requirements, these attempts to induce "critical thinking", are not well defined, and the only demonstrable result is whether you can please the teacher. (IMHO in a better approach a student would use multi-step thinking, construct and answer their own problems, and ultimately produce a result that could be externally and objectively validated, ideally supporting iterative development and adding complexity.) Boys are not very good at pleasing teachers, certainly not nearly as good as girls are. A boy would be less likely to amend his answer to satisfy the absurd question, less likely to try to read the teacher's mind to figure out what output the teacher was trying to get. A boy is less likely to match the girl on language skills at some of those ages, and then can't even excel at something that isn't language based, like math. Everything becomes an essay question, and if you aren't good at essays not only won't you be graded well, you may not enjoy the work itself. And the harder you are pushed towards performing the more you will be pushed towards your weakness (the flaw that is keeping you from being graded well); this may improve your grades at that moment, but at the cost of long term learning. Kids have a lot of time to learn what they need to know. So much time... when people talk about lengthening school days and years, it makes me think about expecting people to work late to increase output. It's not smart. But worse it reveals a lack of value being placed on the time already spent. But if you let a child learn what is right for them to learn, when it is right to learn it, there's so much time for them to become eventually well rounded. It sucks for girls too. They cope better, they are better equipped to conform. They are also cursed with that ability to conform. The bad results for boys often involve obvious external measures, like failing, disciplinary measures, testing poorly, struggling after school. The bad results for girls are often more internal, a fragile identity, not nurturing their own autonomy, feeding on external rather than internal validation. This is why as a parent I opt out of public education.
kordless 12y ago
Schools are failing our daughters as well. My daughter complains that the 'boys are stinky and loud' and that's why she doesn't go into computer lab more often. She says that the majority of the boys in the lab are 'playing games' and are 'obnoxious'. If you've ever been in a computer lab with a bunch of middle schoolers, you will undoubtedly agree with her statements. Simple solution? Build a partition down the middle of the computer lab and make one side for the girls and one for the boys.
- jessaustin 12y ago
  Wow that's a bad idea. If you're a woman, do you like the fact that you have to wait in a long line to access the restroom at crowded public events, while the men just waltz right in? At least some argument, however half-assed, can be made that public restroom facilities should be segregated by gender. Good arguments can be made that primary and secondary schools should cater to just one gender. However, having some portion of a popular resource at a coeducational facility reserved for each gender is just asking for trouble. Computers aren't expensive. Buy one for your daughter.
  - kordless 12y ago
    > Wow that's a bad idea. And then you go on about waiting in line for a restroom. Last time I checked, men are faster at peeing because we have different plumbing. Your argument is vague and not helpful when applied to the classroom environment. > Computers aren't expensive. Buy one for your daughter. Stop rendering bad advice based on assumptions about me. She has last year's 13" Air, a Nexus 4, my old iPad2 and an Amazon Fire. We weren't on the front page of the NYT for nothing.
    - jessaustin 12y ago
      When I read "schools are failing our daughters as well", I didn't picture such a childhood of technological privilege. No child I know has access to all of that stuff. Maybe next time I ought to catch up on NYT reading before responding to random entitled helicopter-parent whinging on HN?
bambax 12y ago
> He hasn’t been allowed outside at school all week; it’s too cold This is not the first time I read this, so it must be true, but it's the craziest idea ever. Not allowing kids to play outside (not making them go outside, regardless of the weather) is criminal. I'm not sure this has anything to do with boys vs. girls though; I have 3 kids, two boys and a girl, and while the three of them love to play outside the one who likes it the most is the girl. She's 6 and will very happily spend a whole afternoon jumping on a trampoline under light rain, as she did yesterday with no harm to herself or her health.
- adamgray 12y ago
  In some places in the world, including where the author is from, it was dangerously cold this week. Here in Chicago the temperature was around -5F (-20C) all week, which is dangerously cold for anyone outside in prolonged periods without proper attire.
  - ptaipale 12y ago
    But not allowing someone to go out, with proper attire, is still weird. (Over here, the rule's that it's mandatory to go out for breaks, except if temperature is below -15C (+5F). Everyone has proper attire.)
    - adamgray 12y ago
      > Everyone has proper attire. I think that's probably a big component of the policy, I regularly see kids on the train or out walking to school without proper attire to be outside in the bitter cold.
  - bambax 12y ago
    No temperature is "dangerously cold" on a playground with proper adult supervision. -20C is really really cold, yes, and dangerously so if you're lost in the middle of the night somewhere with no phone or shelter, but in the middle of the day, in a school, where you can go back inside at any time? Not really.
MarcScott 12y ago
Articles titled 'Why schools are failing ...' annoy me intensely. They're almost always written by a parent with a struggling or gifted child who has almost no actual experience of the education system, other than that they attended a school twenty years ago. Modern education is run with a 'one shoe fits all' approach. We try to cater for boys, girls, those with learning difficulties, those that are gifted, those from impoverished households, those that are affluent, and in general every sector of society that are dumped in our classrooms. I stand in front of 30 different students, 5 times a day and try my best to educate them all to the best of my ability, and do you know what? Sometimes I don't succeed. It pains me, but some kids slip through the cracks and don't get the education they deserve. I try my best, but there are practicalities that need to be considered. If you want an education system that caters for all students, regardless of academic ability and socio-economic background then you need to realise that this does not come cheaply. Stick me in a classroom with 10 students instead of 30 and I'll have more time to spend with each one, be better able to take into account their personal education needs, be able to tailor my lessons to individuals rather than focusing on what will suit the majority. Also realise that you'll need to employ three times as many teachers and that the your taxes will need to be substantially increased. On some level, our modern education system (and previous education systems) fails everyone, to a lesser or greater degree, and few students leave school having reached their full potential. If society wants this to change then the answer is to stop treating schools as a free baby-sitting service, allowing both parents to go out to work and contribute to a nation's GDP, and start treating schools as an investment in a nation's future.
- stevenmays 12y ago
  The point of the article was how compulsory education is failing boys specifically. What is your assessment of that as an educator?
  - MarcScott 12y ago
    She is not talking about how compulsory education is failing boys, but about how it is failing her boy. She talks about 'Little House on the Prairie' as if she expects all boys to be provided lessons on splitting logs and herding cattle. This is not an education that would suit all boys, just hers. In my experience, boys are doing fine at school. They tend to underachieve in their early years, where they are less inclined to study in comparison to girls. As they progress through school and get to specialise, they tend to do better.
sandworm 12y ago
Anyone else spot that the kid likes fire? Every male I know went through a 'firebug' phase as a kid. A young boy playing with fire is imho as natural as a dog wanting to chase squirrels. There was a time when those of us who understood fire survived while other froze. Those who could start and maintain a fire in adverse conditions were once respected individuals, even professionals. Today they are misbehaving young boys, a small percentage of which are even declared dangerous. Not allowing young boys to play with fire is akin to not allowing them to exercise. A boy waking up early to tend the communal fire is expressing an evolved behaviour that probably predates language itself.
mschuster91 12y ago
sarcasm on Are you serious that kids are supposed to play outside in school? After all, they could injure themselves. And then the parents (or their medical insurance, who wants another insurance to pay, if possible) sue the school and the teacher for six-figures. And the parents of the kid too, if possible! Oh, and the kid too, 8 years old and $100k in debt already! sarcasm off And I'm not sure if that what I just said is fiction or has happened often enough. If I were a teacher, I'd just stick the kids in a classroom to limit my liability. I was happy to have enjoyed a childhood in which playing outside was normal. I'm not sure if I'd let my kid outside if I had one. Not in a climate where my 8-year-or-whatever-young old son might get a sex offender entry for the rest of his life because he played doctor games with a little girl in kindergarten or whatever. Too many incidents of this sort happened, and I don't want to have a kid in this legal climate.
xacaxulu 12y ago
I was lucky enough to be sent to a male boarding school. Seeing the state of public and most private school systems in my region, and the lack of male representation among teachers, I will most definitely be sending my sons to similar all male or military boarding schools.
- griffinmahon 12y ago
  Please do not just "send" your sons to military boarding schools. I currently go to an academy and a part of the life here really puts me in a slump.
  - xacaxulu 12y ago
    My experiences in military boarding school were positive. Difficult and character-building, but positive. I doubt any school experience could be 'slump free' all the time. In any case I hope you can find the good in the experience.
Havoc 12y ago
Had a (rebel) teacher that used to claim putting 16 year old boys in a class room is a waste of time. Given the amount of paper planes I constructed in class at that age I'm inclined to agree. Still turned into a successfull professional though so I guess something went right.
cyphunk 12y ago
Woe woe. How is this a "boys" thing? The author has some valuable opinions worth considering but the positing of them is absurd. Re-read that article with this question in mind ("wait, this is a boy issue?") and I think you might also find the authors oblivion equally disturbing. There is reason to consider the gender gap in education but this article, with "Little House on the Prairie" as its sole reference, fails to bring anything of value for that argument. There is also reason to question why some education systems devalue labor... but attaching this to a "boys" thing? <face_palm>
vfclists 12y ago
Not enough male teachers at the primary level?

109 points by mycroft-holmes 12y ago

Replace "boy" or "son" with child and the only paragraph in the article which reads differently is this >Statistically speaking, boys now lag behind girls on every single academic measure; they also get in trouble and drop out of school much more frequently than girls. There are fewer boys in college than girls, and far more lost 20-something boys than 20-something girls. It certainly seems like schools are failing boys but I'm not sure that this particular failure has anything to do with it.

mhurron 12y ago

It's not failing boys, it's failing every child. I never had an issue with this, quite frankly classroom clowns were kind of rare at least when it came to actually disrupting the whole class. However > He hasn’t been allowed outside at school all week That never happened. We went outside, we played, we were able to expend our childhood energy. They are children, they do need somewhere and somehow to expend their energy.

alistairSH 12y ago
I'm sure there were weeks where I didn't get outside during school hours, but between PE in the gym (when cold/wet/whatever), music lessons, chorus, GT programs, and other enrichment, I was rarely stuck in the same room and same seat for more than a few hours at a time. If schools have changed in the last 25 years such that none of that out-of-classroom enrichment occurs, then yeah, we're failing out kids.
- dhagz 12y ago
  There's still a good amount of out-of-classroom enrichment, however here in Georgia we've had a rather nasty cold snap that has prevented kids from going outside (county-wide requirement). How teachers respond to this extra time in the classroom is obviously up to them, but I know of one who had her kids do Zumba for the duration of recess instead of just using it for more instruction.

smegel 12y ago

Because they are, very deliberately, not tailoring education to meet their needs.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

beachstartup 12y ago

yeah, what could possibly go wrong with locking a bunch of 8 year old boys in a room, telling them they can't talk to each other, forcing them to do mind-numbing things they don't want to do, and depriving them of nearly all adult male contact? it's a system that's been hijacked by do-gooders doing anything but good.

blkhp19 12y ago

There are also plenty of boys and girls who don't have this problem. I was a bit of a trouble maker in elementary and middle school - enough to get a call home from the teacher once or twice a year - but I always did my work and gave a damn about my performance. I don't understand this parent. "I let my son play minecraft in the morning before school" - so your son is slacking off in school, but you're still giving him everything he wants? He's your son. He needs to be shown that sometimes, you have to suck it up and work, even when you don't want to. That's a tough lesson to teach an 8 year old, but it's something that parents should enforce early. Eventually, their kid will see that hard work and self control will pay off. Here's a novel idea - don't let your kid play minecraft until he starts doing better in school. That being said, I do think physical activity should be more common. If it's rainy or cold out, kids should be able to go to their school's gym for an extra PE class - or maybe be able to play minecraft on the school computers. Boys and girls needs to be able to do something like this throughout the day. Article like this will hopefully make schools rethink some things - but until change actually happens, this mom needs to take control instead of just throwing her hands up and telling her son "it's not your fault. now go play minecraft."

dugfresh 12y ago
I agree 100% with blkhp19
user_0001 12y ago
>If it's rainy or cold out, kids should be able to go to their school's gym for an extra PE class Nothing wrong with a bit of cold or wet. It's character building :) Send em outside
- blkhp19 12y ago
  As a kid, I would have loved that! But can't you just picture the musty smell the classroom would have with 20 soaking wet kids? :p
bjt 12y ago
> so your son is slacking off in school, but you're still giving him everything he wants? I don't see how you get from playing Minecraft in the morning to her letting her son do "everything he wants". You're assuming that playing Minecraft is frivolous or negative or that shouldn't be allowed in the morning, much less encouraged. And you have little information on what other activities she has encouraged, permitted, or forbidden. It's tempting to pass judgment on other people's parenting. This temptation should be resisted.

elchief 12y ago

"Simply put, girls have better educational outcomes when taught by women, and boys are better off when taught by men" http://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ednext20064_68.pdf http://cepa.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ednext20064_68.... Pay teachers better and aim for 50% male teachers and consider going back to all boys schools and all girls schools with plenty of rules to ensure that both are treated fairly.

golemotron 12y ago
I agree but I'm sure that separate education would turn into a political minefield if outcomes are different between the sexes. It would be the 'separate but equal' issue with race all over again.
Niten 12y ago
I used to work for a school system that experimented with gendered classrooms. While it would be a mistake to extrapolate too much from our experience, those became the most successful classrooms at the elementary school in question. The boys did particularly well. Naturally the ACLU would rather fight to ban the practice outright than risk additional research possibly showing that this is a productive approach, at the expense of the preferred gender politics narrative.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  I thought you were being melodramatic about the ACLU, but nope, not at all: https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/sometimes-it-only-takes-hour-get-picture-single-sex-program-wont-fly https://www.aclu.org/blog/womens-rights/sometimes-it-only-ta... I am all about gender equally but that seems crazy to me. As long as girls and boys receive the same standard of education then why should it matter? Seems like PC taken too far.
  - Niten 12y ago
    Same here, and sorry if that seemed hyperbolic. It's just extremely frustrating to me as someone who sees (most of) the ACLU's work as extremely important, and who has donated to them in the past.

PaulHoule 12y ago

There are lots of reasons. First of all, any organization that has men working with young children will eventually face accusations of pedophilia regardless of the reality. Also men seem less interested in day care and early childhood education so children see nothing but women teachers until high school. Just like blacks who have nothing but white teachers conclude that education is a "white thing", boys will conclude it is a girl thing. When I coached Kindergarten soccer (which is a lot of fun; I'll leave large-field soccer to the Europeans, but the game on a small field is exciting) I shaved my beard because I learned that it would scare some kids because they'd never seen anybody with a beard. There's also the problem that people mistake an obedient child for a "good child". There was this book http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Personality-Edition/dp/0964765004 http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Personality... which seemed so puzzled that people would "change" quickly when they fall into cults but the real thing is parents thought these kids had it together because they would do what they are told and when you put them in a new environment they do what L. Ron Hubbard tells them to do (i.e. no "change" at all) My son isn't in the habit of obedient and if somebody isn't pushing on him somewhat he will do nothing at all in a classroom with 20 kids. I talked with my superintendent about this at a PTA meeting and he told me I should sit back and let the experts deal with this. (Just before this he told the mother of a "special" child that he welcomes her as a partner in his education; that's because the state can set a fire under his ass) That's why my son is homeschooled.

maratd 12y ago
> That's why my son is homeschooled. I'm in a position where this is an option, but I'm concerned about social interaction? I think it's important for a child to spend substantial periods of time with his peers. How do you deal with this?
- msandford 12y ago
  Homeschool co-op for whatever amount of time you think is appropriate. They can be anywhere from one day a month to several days a week.
- aedocw 12y ago

skylan_q 12y ago

The resources that are available geared specifically toward the improvement of education have been allocated more towards girls and less towards boys than they were in the past. As a result, the academic performce of girls has improved relative to boys.

rayiner 12y ago

> Re-entry after winter break has not been easy for him. The rules and restrictions of school – Sit Still. Be Quiet. Do What You Are Told, Nothing More, Nothing Less. – have been grating on him, and it shows. > The lack of movement and rigid restrictions associated with modern schooling are killing my son’s soul. As an asian, I can't muster a lot of sympathy for this line of reasoning. Nobody would accuse asian countries of catering to girls rather than boys, but the schooling over there is even more "sit down, shut up, and do your work" than it is here in the U.S.

trynumber9 12y ago
China: 59% female teachers. Japan: 62.7% (primary), 54.8% (secondary) female teachers. USA: 87% female teachers. I think you're right, the order doesn't matter so much as where the order comes from.
- rayiner 12y ago
  I'd love to see more male teachers. But I also think there's an (perhaps unconscious) sexist undertone that we need more male teachers because we can't expect boys to see women as proper authority figures.
  - pauleastlund 12y ago
    First, I do think some of it is not just teacher demographics; I think the learning style promoted in American schools serves girls, in the aggregate, better than it serves boys. But more directly addressing your post, I don't think the point about teacher demographics is that boys can't respect women; I think it's that they're less likely to see women as role models. I always tried to downplay this stuff -- race-blind-and-gender-blind and all that to treat all people equally -- but I have a son and three daughters now and in spite of us never really making it a Thing, gender is a Thing for them. My kids were curious about video games but my daughter got turned off by a lot of them because "how come so many of the characters are boys." No matter what I said, she couldn't get past that. She felt like video games weren't for her. Is it crazy that boys might subconsciously feel the same about school? "If it's for boys how come all the teachers are women?"

ianbicking 12y ago

A friend of mine posted her daughter's homework, which had a math problem like "What is 17 - 9?" then "Explain." Her daughter wrote something like "because it is". Which is all the damn explanation that should require. The friend did admit that her daughter later added an explanation. (To be fair, I think they were looking for something like "because 9 + 8 = 17" which isn't entirely unreasonable.) This is a pattern I have seen more, and I think is part of Common Core more generally. It makes some sense, but it also feels like they are aping good education. Yes, it is important that students have more than one way to approach a problem, that they understand the truth of the answer and not just the mechanism to produce it, and it is good if a child can work at articulating their thought processes. But, acknowledging that, the Common Core response is: add some more questions requiring the student to do those things. It's not supportive. Now, back to boys and girls. These vague requirements, these attempts to induce "critical thinking", are not well defined, and the only demonstrable result is whether you can please the teacher. (IMHO in a better approach a student would use multi-step thinking, construct and answer their own problems, and ultimately produce a result that could be externally and objectively validated, ideally supporting iterative development and adding complexity.) Boys are not very good at pleasing teachers, certainly not nearly as good as girls are. A boy would be less likely to amend his answer to satisfy the absurd question, less likely to try to read the teacher's mind to figure out what output the teacher was trying to get. A boy is less likely to match the girl on language skills at some of those ages, and then can't even excel at something that isn't language based, like math. Everything becomes an essay question, and if you aren't good at essays not only won't you be graded well, you may not enjoy the work itself. And the harder you are pushed towards performing the more you will be pushed towards your weakness (the flaw that is keeping you from being graded well); this may improve your grades at that moment, but at the cost of long term learning. Kids have a lot of time to learn what they need to know. So much time... when people talk about lengthening school days and years, it makes me think about expecting people to work late to increase output. It's not smart. But worse it reveals a lack of value being placed on the time already spent. But if you let a child learn what is right for them to learn, when it is right to learn it, there's so much time for them to become eventually well rounded. It sucks for girls too. They cope better, they are better equipped to conform. They are also cursed with that ability to conform. The bad results for boys often involve obvious external measures, like failing, disciplinary measures, testing poorly, struggling after school. The bad results for girls are often more internal, a fragile identity, not nurturing their own autonomy, feeding on external rather than internal validation. This is why as a parent I opt out of public education.

kordless 12y ago

Schools are failing our daughters as well. My daughter complains that the 'boys are stinky and loud' and that's why she doesn't go into computer lab more often. She says that the majority of the boys in the lab are 'playing games' and are 'obnoxious'. If you've ever been in a computer lab with a bunch of middle schoolers, you will undoubtedly agree with her statements. Simple solution? Build a partition down the middle of the computer lab and make one side for the girls and one for the boys.

jessaustin 12y ago
Wow that's a bad idea. If you're a woman, do you like the fact that you have to wait in a long line to access the restroom at crowded public events, while the men just waltz right in? At least some argument, however half-assed, can be made that public restroom facilities should be segregated by gender. Good arguments can be made that primary and secondary schools should cater to just one gender. However, having some portion of a popular resource at a coeducational facility reserved for each gender is just asking for trouble. Computers aren't expensive. Buy one for your daughter.
- kordless 12y ago
  > Wow that's a bad idea. And then you go on about waiting in line for a restroom. Last time I checked, men are faster at peeing because we have different plumbing. Your argument is vague and not helpful when applied to the classroom environment. > Computers aren't expensive. Buy one for your daughter. Stop rendering bad advice based on assumptions about me. She has last year's 13" Air, a Nexus 4, my old iPad2 and an Amazon Fire. We weren't on the front page of the NYT for nothing.
  - jessaustin 12y ago
    When I read "schools are failing our daughters as well", I didn't picture such a childhood of technological privilege. No child I know has access to all of that stuff. Maybe next time I ought to catch up on NYT reading before responding to random entitled helicopter-parent whinging on HN?

bambax 12y ago

> He hasn’t been allowed outside at school all week; it’s too cold This is not the first time I read this, so it must be true, but it's the craziest idea ever. Not allowing kids to play outside (not making them go outside, regardless of the weather) is criminal. I'm not sure this has anything to do with boys vs. girls though; I have 3 kids, two boys and a girl, and while the three of them love to play outside the one who likes it the most is the girl. She's 6 and will very happily spend a whole afternoon jumping on a trampoline under light rain, as she did yesterday with no harm to herself or her health.

adamgray 12y ago
In some places in the world, including where the author is from, it was dangerously cold this week. Here in Chicago the temperature was around -5F (-20C) all week, which is dangerously cold for anyone outside in prolonged periods without proper attire.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  But not allowing someone to go out, with proper attire, is still weird. (Over here, the rule's that it's mandatory to go out for breaks, except if temperature is below -15C (+5F). Everyone has proper attire.)
  - adamgray 12y ago
    > Everyone has proper attire. I think that's probably a big component of the policy, I regularly see kids on the train or out walking to school without proper attire to be outside in the bitter cold.
- bambax 12y ago
  No temperature is "dangerously cold" on a playground with proper adult supervision. -20C is really really cold, yes, and dangerously so if you're lost in the middle of the night somewhere with no phone or shelter, but in the middle of the day, in a school, where you can go back inside at any time? Not really.

MarcScott 12y ago

Articles titled 'Why schools are failing ...' annoy me intensely. They're almost always written by a parent with a struggling or gifted child who has almost no actual experience of the education system, other than that they attended a school twenty years ago. Modern education is run with a 'one shoe fits all' approach. We try to cater for boys, girls, those with learning difficulties, those that are gifted, those from impoverished households, those that are affluent, and in general every sector of society that are dumped in our classrooms. I stand in front of 30 different students, 5 times a day and try my best to educate them all to the best of my ability, and do you know what? Sometimes I don't succeed. It pains me, but some kids slip through the cracks and don't get the education they deserve. I try my best, but there are practicalities that need to be considered. If you want an education system that caters for all students, regardless of academic ability and socio-economic background then you need to realise that this does not come cheaply. Stick me in a classroom with 10 students instead of 30 and I'll have more time to spend with each one, be better able to take into account their personal education needs, be able to tailor my lessons to individuals rather than focusing on what will suit the majority. Also realise that you'll need to employ three times as many teachers and that the your taxes will need to be substantially increased. On some level, our modern education system (and previous education systems) fails everyone, to a lesser or greater degree, and few students leave school having reached their full potential. If society wants this to change then the answer is to stop treating schools as a free baby-sitting service, allowing both parents to go out to work and contribute to a nation's GDP, and start treating schools as an investment in a nation's future.

stevenmays 12y ago
The point of the article was how compulsory education is failing boys specifically. What is your assessment of that as an educator?
- MarcScott 12y ago
  She is not talking about how compulsory education is failing boys, but about how it is failing her boy. She talks about 'Little House on the Prairie' as if she expects all boys to be provided lessons on splitting logs and herding cattle. This is not an education that would suit all boys, just hers. In my experience, boys are doing fine at school. They tend to underachieve in their early years, where they are less inclined to study in comparison to girls. As they progress through school and get to specialise, they tend to do better.

sandworm 12y ago

Anyone else spot that the kid likes fire? Every male I know went through a 'firebug' phase as a kid. A young boy playing with fire is imho as natural as a dog wanting to chase squirrels. There was a time when those of us who understood fire survived while other froze. Those who could start and maintain a fire in adverse conditions were once respected individuals, even professionals. Today they are misbehaving young boys, a small percentage of which are even declared dangerous. Not allowing young boys to play with fire is akin to not allowing them to exercise. A boy waking up early to tend the communal fire is expressing an evolved behaviour that probably predates language itself.

mschuster91 12y ago

sarcasm on Are you serious that kids are supposed to play outside in school? After all, they could injure themselves. And then the parents (or their medical insurance, who wants another insurance to pay, if possible) sue the school and the teacher for six-figures. And the parents of the kid too, if possible! Oh, and the kid too, 8 years old and $100k in debt already! sarcasm off And I'm not sure if that what I just said is fiction or has happened often enough. If I were a teacher, I'd just stick the kids in a classroom to limit my liability. I was happy to have enjoyed a childhood in which playing outside was normal. I'm not sure if I'd let my kid outside if I had one. Not in a climate where my 8-year-or-whatever-young old son might get a sex offender entry for the rest of his life because he played doctor games with a little girl in kindergarten or whatever. Too many incidents of this sort happened, and I don't want to have a kid in this legal climate.

xacaxulu 12y ago

I was lucky enough to be sent to a male boarding school. Seeing the state of public and most private school systems in my region, and the lack of male representation among teachers, I will most definitely be sending my sons to similar all male or military boarding schools.

griffinmahon 12y ago
Please do not just "send" your sons to military boarding schools. I currently go to an academy and a part of the life here really puts me in a slump.
- xacaxulu 12y ago
  My experiences in military boarding school were positive. Difficult and character-building, but positive. I doubt any school experience could be 'slump free' all the time. In any case I hope you can find the good in the experience.

Havoc 12y ago

Had a (rebel) teacher that used to claim putting 16 year old boys in a class room is a waste of time. Given the amount of paper planes I constructed in class at that age I'm inclined to agree. Still turned into a successfull professional though so I guess something went right.

cyphunk 12y ago

Woe woe. How is this a "boys" thing? The author has some valuable opinions worth considering but the positing of them is absurd. Re-read that article with this question in mind ("wait, this is a boy issue?") and I think you might also find the authors oblivion equally disturbing. There is reason to consider the gender gap in education but this article, with "Little House on the Prairie" as its sole reference, fails to bring anything of value for that argument. There is also reason to question why some education systems devalue labor... but attaching this to a "boys" thing? <face_palm>

vfclists 12y ago

Not enough male teachers at the primary level?