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None of these arguments are very moving. The best argument of the article is that it's good to learn programming even if your interests are in the hard science

by stolio 12y ago

None of these arguments are very moving. The best argument of the article is that it's good to learn programming even if your interests are in the hard sciences. But computer science is a STEM field. STEM majors already cross-train in other STEM disciplines because it's useful and helps give them a well-rounded education. Why not make liberal arts students, who are the ones who can't get jobs and whose educations aren't doing much for society, take science classes? They're the ones who end up working at Starbucks. That's the part of the education system that's _broken_, but we're supposed to ask the most productive part of education to follow suit?

voyou 12y ago
"Why not make liberal arts students, who are the ones who can't get jobs..." It's not really that simple. Recent liberal arts graduates have about the same unemployment rate as recent computer science and maths graduates. Physical science graduates have a much better chance of finding a job, but so do education majors.[1] And there isn't a big glut of unfilled STEM jobs which would be available to these liberal arts students if they just took STEM courses.[2] The idea that the liberal arts are "broken" and STEM is "productive" isn't supported by the evidence. [1]: https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/HardTimes2015-Report.pdf https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/HardTimes2015-... [2]: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i...
- stolio 12y ago
  Your "evidence" is underwhelming, I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. My argument wasn't based on the "STEM crisis" so debunking it is irrelevant. If you look at figure 1 of your Georgetown link it seems clear that STEM degrees correlate with lower unemployment, liberal arts with higher unemployment. You don't get to just cherry-pick the easy comparisons. Your link suggests technical educations have, as a whole, lower unemployment. In addition to that, average salaries for recent STEM grads are 25-50% higher than their liberal arts counterparts. Maybe it's not fair of me to say that one is awesome and the other is horrible, but if we're going to make one of them more like the other it seems clear which one is falling behind.

by stolio 12y ago

voyou 12y ago

"Why not make liberal arts students, who are the ones who can't get jobs..." It's not really that simple. Recent liberal arts graduates have about the same unemployment rate as recent computer science and maths graduates. Physical science graduates have a much better chance of finding a job, but so do education majors.[1] And there isn't a big glut of unfilled STEM jobs which would be available to these liberal arts students if they just took STEM courses.[2] The idea that the liberal arts are "broken" and STEM is "productive" isn't supported by the evidence. [1]: https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/HardTimes2015-Report.pdf https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/HardTimes2015-... [2]: http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-i...

stolio 12y ago
Your "evidence" is underwhelming, I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. My argument wasn't based on the "STEM crisis" so debunking it is irrelevant. If you look at figure 1 of your Georgetown link it seems clear that STEM degrees correlate with lower unemployment, liberal arts with higher unemployment. You don't get to just cherry-pick the easy comparisons. Your link suggests technical educations have, as a whole, lower unemployment. In addition to that, average salaries for recent STEM grads are 25-50% higher than their liberal arts counterparts. Maybe it's not fair of me to say that one is awesome and the other is horrible, but if we're going to make one of them more like the other it seems clear which one is falling behind.