7 ms·

I was excited until I read 8GB max... that can't be right can it? What modern developer machine would have an 8GB cap?

by MetaCosm 12y ago

guelo 12y ago
Same as a Macbook Air.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
bwilliams 12y ago
The 8gb model is 2x4gb, maybe the developer edition will see 2x8gb?
- MetaCosm 12y ago
  One can hope, currently as my next portable, I am looking at the Asus UX303LN (great memorable Asus names...) but haven't found much info on putting Linux on it yet.
cies 12y ago
It's a bit of a bummer. But I can live with it. For me it's all compared to other ultrabooks, like the MacBookAir which also does 8G max. I hope I'll never need to carry a classic-full-size laptop anymore, ever.
- keeperofdakeys 12y ago
  The original samsung series 9 is a sandybridge "ultrabook" from 2011 that can take 16GB of ram. While technically before ultrabooks were first released, it has a similar profile to the air. It was also released before 8GB dimm modules were available, but while never being "supported", they work just fine. I haven't seen an ultrabook I'd prefer over it, especially when I rule out ones that use a tapered design.
- tracker1 12y ago
  My macbook pro isn't that much thicker than an air.. though I wound up getting the 15" retina because I needed 16gb without waiting a few weeks for it... tried an 8gb/13" retina model, and returned it, needed the extra ram.
Agathos 12y ago
I don't know of any ultrabook that lets you go past 8GB. Not this, not the Lenovo X1, not the MacBook Air. Do you know of one? Edit: saw your pointer to the Asus UX303LN. Interesting.
- noisy_boy 12y ago
  Dell E7240, 12.5" and allowed upto 16GB.
driverdan 12y ago
What do you use more than 8GB for? Only things I can think of are massive Illustrator files and large Windows VMs.
- 2muchcoffeeman 12y ago
  Might have multiple app servers running on the same machine for development. 16gb is pretty useful.
- IvyMike 12y ago
  I have another OS installed in a VM, an admittedly ridonkulous number of open tabs (that's just how I work) and an IDE, and that puts me at around 11GB in use.
cmurf 12y ago
Well one plus is the total RAM footprint of a Linux distro + a DE, is less (by a lot) than just OS X's kernel. Right now, xnu alone is using 960MB on my laptop. Oink oink oink. Edit:MBP82, created new user accounts, reboot, login, launch Firefox, load CNN, wait 2 minutes. Did this twice each Fedora 21 Workstation (Gnome) and OS X 10.9.5. Fedora free -m used = 614MB. OS X top PhysMem Used = 2866M, Activity Monitor Memory Used = 3.69GB. I suspect Activity Monitor includes "wired" which top splits out. shrug Anyway, it's not a tiny difference. Omnomnomnom.
- tkms 12y ago
  The RAM footprints of most development tools on Linux are also less than on other operating systems, due to shared libraries and not just shipping every dependency bundled with binaries. A developer on OSX told me he was close to maxing out his 16gigs of RAM, blaming it on having to run 2 vagrant VMs simultaneously while working. While I wasn't able to establish a conclusive cause of his sizeable memory consumption (he was busy), I spun up 3 vagrant VMs of my own, simulated work, and opened/visited many more sites in Firefox to try to hog resources. I could hardly break 4 gigs of RAM used (out of 16), in Ubuntu 14.04. 8 gigs might not actually be so bad if you're doing development work using tools that aren't shipped as complete packages, but rather adhere to the unix philosophy.
  - crdoconnor 12y ago
    I look at my RAM usage on ubuntu sometimes and I suspect that about 40-50% of the machine's total use is due to adblock running on firefox.
    - bluefinity 12y ago
      Give µBlock[1] a try, it seems to use quite a bit less memory. I've also found it to block more ads by default. [1]: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock
- Maakuth 12y ago
  I suspect a lot of this comes from OS X apps all shipping with most of the library dependencies, so there's no way of deduplicating libraries that are loaded in the memory. In Linux, shared libraries are used, at least with software installed by package management. OS X should benefit from a kernel feature something like Linux KSM (kernel samepage merging[1]), that scans for duplicate memory pages and merges them to shallow copy-on-write clones. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_same-page_merging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_same-page_merging
currysausage 12y ago
The 3rd Gen ThinkPad X1 Carbon has 4GB (soldered) by default, and the biggest configuration that I can find has 8GB. What are they thinking?
- estebank 12y ago
  Know that the most it can go to is 12GB. If you want more memory you have to go to the T4XXp series, and probably buy the RAM yourself as the premium charged is considerable: 16GB on NewEgg is $120, while the premium payed for 16GB out of the box is $340. The T440s also maxes out at 12GB.
  - mercurial 12y ago
    Just don't buy the RAM from Lenovo. On my T430, access to the RAM is a screwdriver away.
    - InAnEmergency 12y ago
      It's a bit of a pain with the T440s (have to pry apart all the plastic), but still better than paying what Lenovo wants.
  - rikkus 12y ago
    I did this. I had an X1 Carbon, but couldn't find a way to upgrade the SSD (it's some weird size and connector) and 8GB wasn't enough, so I sold it and bought a T430s.
ekianjo 12y ago
I'm curious, but why do you need more than 8Gb for ? I can think of a few potential uses of more RAM (large video files edition, R on very, very big data sets) but 8Gb seems reasonable for most tasks. Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day ?
- ako 12y ago
  I have 8gb and get warnings quite often that I'm running out of memory: windows 7, ubuntu vm with oracle or Postgres, IntelliJ, Firefox, chrome, office, R. Both R and the virtual machine take 2gb+, IntelliJ 1gb+...
- splix 12y ago
  An Java app, IntelliJ IDEA, few Docker VMs, 2 browsers (and you know how much memory Chrome eats?), few not so complex tools for development (like SourceTree, Dash, etc) - and 14Gb are used. Just checked. And I didn't run anything serious yet. Had 8gb before, machine was swapping too much, become unresponsive, etc.
- dagw 12y ago
  Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day? Maybe not every single day, but easily 3 days a week. Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time, without having to try to get too clever. That being said, I currently have an MBA with 4 GB of RAM as a secondary computer to complement my workstation at work, and that's fine for most of my day to day programming tasks.
  - josteink 12y ago
    > Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time Suffice to say, you probably don't represent the average developer, or power-user. I can write code just fine without having to resort to 32GB data-sets. I think most other developers can too. Not saying I don't acknowledge that some people may have such a need, but I don't see this is a big enough issue for enough people, to think it warrants making the already expensive developer edition even more expensive. If you need 3-digit Gigabytes of RAM, have you considered just remoting into a server which has all the juice you need instead? In the age of the cloud, why on earth do you need all that power in your laptop? That just seems awfully backwards.
Roritharr 12y ago
16 GB is a must for my next machine, nothing I do is that CPU intensive anymore. I'd also like a Dockingport... its the main reason i love my Surface Pro 2 so much. Displayport, Dockingstation, 8GB Ram and 512GB SSD all below 1200g, that is to be beat. I hope for a 16GB Ram version for the next Surface Pro 4. I run daily into swap, having just one VM open, Photoshop and PHPStorm...
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  Hold off a bit then. USB 3.1 Type C is just around the corner. Once it's established, pretty much every laptop, tablet and phone will contain a USB 3.1 Type C docking port. (and most monitors will be docking stations).
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    Do you have a particular timeframe on that? I'm in the market for a new laptop, and considering just getting an XPS 13 tonight. However, the advent of skylake has me considering waiting (but who knows if that'll be out in the next 6 months), as does your comment.
    - bryanlarsen 12y ago
      The rumour is that the next-gen macbook air will have it, and that this is going to happen this quarter. Iff that happens, then other manufacturers are going to hop on board too. If not, I expect it may take over a year before it's ubiquitous -- Intel isn't including USB 3.1 in Skylake, so it will require an extra chip, something manufacturers are very hesitant to add to laptops.
      - joshuapants 12y ago
        Hmm. Rumor has it the next Air refresh is next week. If that's not the next-gen one, then I'm a bit skeptical that they'll put a brand new model out right after a minor change. I guess I'll see what happens next week and then make my decision.
jamespo 12y ago
There are plenty of workstation class laptops available, pick one of ultrabook / powerhouse.
wil421 12y ago
I run 8GB now on my 2011 MBP but if I am search for a new laptop it will have 16GB. Luckily, I run a remote VM most of the time and can get away with 8 but if I need to do anything locally that involves a VM I start running short.
vidoc 12y ago
I had the same impression, 8G max is a regrettable decision. The price is also a little too much and Dell seems to be one of those coupon bullshit companies.

I was excited until I read 8GB max... that can't be right can it? What modern developer machine would have an 8GB cap?

guelo 12y ago

Same as a Macbook Air.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

bwilliams 12y ago

The 8gb model is 2x4gb, maybe the developer edition will see 2x8gb?

MetaCosm 12y ago
One can hope, currently as my next portable, I am looking at the Asus UX303LN (great memorable Asus names...) but haven't found much info on putting Linux on it yet.

cies 12y ago

It's a bit of a bummer. But I can live with it. For me it's all compared to other ultrabooks, like the MacBookAir which also does 8G max. I hope I'll never need to carry a classic-full-size laptop anymore, ever.

keeperofdakeys 12y ago
The original samsung series 9 is a sandybridge "ultrabook" from 2011 that can take 16GB of ram. While technically before ultrabooks were first released, it has a similar profile to the air. It was also released before 8GB dimm modules were available, but while never being "supported", they work just fine. I haven't seen an ultrabook I'd prefer over it, especially when I rule out ones that use a tapered design.
tracker1 12y ago
My macbook pro isn't that much thicker than an air.. though I wound up getting the 15" retina because I needed 16gb without waiting a few weeks for it... tried an 8gb/13" retina model, and returned it, needed the extra ram.

Agathos 12y ago

I don't know of any ultrabook that lets you go past 8GB. Not this, not the Lenovo X1, not the MacBook Air. Do you know of one? Edit: saw your pointer to the Asus UX303LN. Interesting.

noisy_boy 12y ago
Dell E7240, 12.5" and allowed upto 16GB.

driverdan 12y ago

What do you use more than 8GB for? Only things I can think of are massive Illustrator files and large Windows VMs.

2muchcoffeeman 12y ago
Might have multiple app servers running on the same machine for development. 16gb is pretty useful.
IvyMike 12y ago
I have another OS installed in a VM, an admittedly ridonkulous number of open tabs (that's just how I work) and an IDE, and that puts me at around 11GB in use.

cmurf 12y ago

Well one plus is the total RAM footprint of a Linux distro + a DE, is less (by a lot) than just OS X's kernel. Right now, xnu alone is using 960MB on my laptop. Oink oink oink. Edit:MBP82, created new user accounts, reboot, login, launch Firefox, load CNN, wait 2 minutes. Did this twice each Fedora 21 Workstation (Gnome) and OS X 10.9.5. Fedora free -m used = 614MB. OS X top PhysMem Used = 2866M, Activity Monitor Memory Used = 3.69GB. I suspect Activity Monitor includes "wired" which top splits out. shrug Anyway, it's not a tiny difference. Omnomnomnom.

tkms 12y ago
The RAM footprints of most development tools on Linux are also less than on other operating systems, due to shared libraries and not just shipping every dependency bundled with binaries. A developer on OSX told me he was close to maxing out his 16gigs of RAM, blaming it on having to run 2 vagrant VMs simultaneously while working. While I wasn't able to establish a conclusive cause of his sizeable memory consumption (he was busy), I spun up 3 vagrant VMs of my own, simulated work, and opened/visited many more sites in Firefox to try to hog resources. I could hardly break 4 gigs of RAM used (out of 16), in Ubuntu 14.04. 8 gigs might not actually be so bad if you're doing development work using tools that aren't shipped as complete packages, but rather adhere to the unix philosophy.
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  I look at my RAM usage on ubuntu sometimes and I suspect that about 40-50% of the machine's total use is due to adblock running on firefox.
  - bluefinity 12y ago
    Give µBlock[1] a try, it seems to use quite a bit less memory. I've also found it to block more ads by default. [1]: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock
Maakuth 12y ago
I suspect a lot of this comes from OS X apps all shipping with most of the library dependencies, so there's no way of deduplicating libraries that are loaded in the memory. In Linux, shared libraries are used, at least with software installed by package management. OS X should benefit from a kernel feature something like Linux KSM (kernel samepage merging[1]), that scans for duplicate memory pages and merges them to shallow copy-on-write clones. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_same-page_merging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_same-page_merging

currysausage 12y ago

The 3rd Gen ThinkPad X1 Carbon has 4GB (soldered) by default, and the biggest configuration that I can find has 8GB. What are they thinking?

estebank 12y ago
Know that the most it can go to is 12GB. If you want more memory you have to go to the T4XXp series, and probably buy the RAM yourself as the premium charged is considerable: 16GB on NewEgg is $120, while the premium payed for 16GB out of the box is $340. The T440s also maxes out at 12GB.
- mercurial 12y ago
  Just don't buy the RAM from Lenovo. On my T430, access to the RAM is a screwdriver away.
  - InAnEmergency 12y ago
    It's a bit of a pain with the T440s (have to pry apart all the plastic), but still better than paying what Lenovo wants.
- rikkus 12y ago
  I did this. I had an X1 Carbon, but couldn't find a way to upgrade the SSD (it's some weird size and connector) and 8GB wasn't enough, so I sold it and bought a T430s.

ekianjo 12y ago

I'm curious, but why do you need more than 8Gb for ? I can think of a few potential uses of more RAM (large video files edition, R on very, very big data sets) but 8Gb seems reasonable for most tasks. Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day ?

ako 12y ago
I have 8gb and get warnings quite often that I'm running out of memory: windows 7, ubuntu vm with oracle or Postgres, IntelliJ, Firefox, chrome, office, R. Both R and the virtual machine take 2gb+, IntelliJ 1gb+...
splix 12y ago
An Java app, IntelliJ IDEA, few Docker VMs, 2 browsers (and you know how much memory Chrome eats?), few not so complex tools for development (like SourceTree, Dash, etc) - and 14Gb are used. Just checked. And I didn't run anything serious yet. Had 8gb before, machine was swapping too much, become unresponsive, etc.
dagw 12y ago
Are you really in a situation where you need 16Gb every single day? Maybe not every single day, but easily 3 days a week. Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time, without having to try to get too clever. That being said, I currently have an MBA with 4 GB of RAM as a secondary computer to complement my workstation at work, and that's fine for most of my day to day programming tasks.
- josteink 12y ago
  > Personally I could never consider owning a primary work machine with less than 32 GB of RAM, as that is just about enough (with some swap) to do something reasonable with a moderately sized data set in reasonable time Suffice to say, you probably don't represent the average developer, or power-user. I can write code just fine without having to resort to 32GB data-sets. I think most other developers can too. Not saying I don't acknowledge that some people may have such a need, but I don't see this is a big enough issue for enough people, to think it warrants making the already expensive developer edition even more expensive. If you need 3-digit Gigabytes of RAM, have you considered just remoting into a server which has all the juice you need instead? In the age of the cloud, why on earth do you need all that power in your laptop? That just seems awfully backwards.

Roritharr 12y ago

16 GB is a must for my next machine, nothing I do is that CPU intensive anymore. I'd also like a Dockingport... its the main reason i love my Surface Pro 2 so much. Displayport, Dockingstation, 8GB Ram and 512GB SSD all below 1200g, that is to be beat. I hope for a 16GB Ram version for the next Surface Pro 4. I run daily into swap, having just one VM open, Photoshop and PHPStorm...

bryanlarsen 12y ago
Hold off a bit then. USB 3.1 Type C is just around the corner. Once it's established, pretty much every laptop, tablet and phone will contain a USB 3.1 Type C docking port. (and most monitors will be docking stations).
- joshuapants 12y ago
  Do you have a particular timeframe on that? I'm in the market for a new laptop, and considering just getting an XPS 13 tonight. However, the advent of skylake has me considering waiting (but who knows if that'll be out in the next 6 months), as does your comment.
  - bryanlarsen 12y ago
    The rumour is that the next-gen macbook air will have it, and that this is going to happen this quarter. Iff that happens, then other manufacturers are going to hop on board too. If not, I expect it may take over a year before it's ubiquitous -- Intel isn't including USB 3.1 in Skylake, so it will require an extra chip, something manufacturers are very hesitant to add to laptops.
    - joshuapants 12y ago
      Hmm. Rumor has it the next Air refresh is next week. If that's not the next-gen one, then I'm a bit skeptical that they'll put a brand new model out right after a minor change. I guess I'll see what happens next week and then make my decision.

jamespo 12y ago

There are plenty of workstation class laptops available, pick one of ultrabook / powerhouse.

wil421 12y ago

I run 8GB now on my 2011 MBP but if I am search for a new laptop it will have 16GB. Luckily, I run a remote VM most of the time and can get away with 8 but if I need to do anything locally that involves a VM I start running short.

vidoc 12y ago

I had the same impression, 8G max is a regrettable decision. The price is also a little too much and Dell seems to be one of those coupon bullshit companies.