5 ms·

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

haberman 12y ago
I see that there is a history. But science, by its nature, is descriptive, not prescriptive. It describes how the world is, not how it ought to be. Pretend for a second that science discovered convincing/rigorous evidence that white people were less intelligent genetically than other races. That isn't justification for intolerance against white people. We get to choose our values as a society, independently of the reality of the world around us. Science is a poor justification for intolerance, no matter what arguments people may attempt to make.
- Jtsummers 12y ago
  People have used what they believe to be true from either actual scientific evidence or a particularly bizarre/inept interpretation of scientific evidence to justify their actions. Science is descriptive, but people turn it into a prescription for how to do or deal with X. Whatever X may be. People read the scientific report saying that a glass of red wine has some heart health benefits and they start drinking (or justifying the drinking they already did). That's at least a benign (assuming they don't go overboard on the drinking) example. At points in history, and those points are described in the linked article, people believed numerous things about the various "races". They based this on scientific or pseudo-scientific findings of the time, that often fit their pre-conceived notions. They used this to justify their prescribed solutions. Whether it was slavery, subjugation or genocide. It is a poor justification for intolerance, and that's part of what the original poster was pointing out. But just because it's a poor justification doesn't mean it hasn't been done. People (as a collective) are not inherently rational or logical. They're easily led by the nose by charismatic speakers and those skilled in rhetoric. They want to believe they're special or that someone else is to blame and when someone presents something that helps them believe that they lap it up. It's happened throughout history, and it'll continue through the future. The best we can hope for is that our understanding of the universe and nature casts light on more things so those that would abuse it have fewer shadows to hide in.
  - haberman 12y ago
    > The best we can hope for is that our understanding of the universe and nature casts light on more things so those that would abuse it have fewer shadows to hide in. I suppose. But the question still stands: what if there was rigorous evidence that one race was genetically more intelligent than another? We need to have an understanding that such data would in no way be justification for oppression or mistreatment. We get to choose our own values. That needs to be the message, IMO.
- ebfe 12y ago
  >Pretend for a second that science discovered convincing/rigorous evidence that white people were less intelligent genetically than other races. That isn't justification for intolerance against white people. We would, however, expect white people to be underrepresented in positions that require high intelligence (medicine, STEM, politics, CEOs, etc) and understand that this underrepresentation would not be indicative of racial discrimination.
  - haberman 12y ago
    Yep, that is true. Good point.

I see that there is a history. But science, by its nature, is descriptive, not prescriptive. It describes how the world is, not how it ought to be. Pretend for a second that science discovered convincing/rigorous evidence that white people were less intelligent genetically than other races. That isn't justification for intolerance against white people. We get to choose our values as a society, independently of the reality of the world around us. Science is a poor justification for intolerance, no matter what arguments people may attempt to make.

Jtsummers 12y ago
People have used what they believe to be true from either actual scientific evidence or a particularly bizarre/inept interpretation of scientific evidence to justify their actions. Science is descriptive, but people turn it into a prescription for how to do or deal with X. Whatever X may be. People read the scientific report saying that a glass of red wine has some heart health benefits and they start drinking (or justifying the drinking they already did). That's at least a benign (assuming they don't go overboard on the drinking) example. At points in history, and those points are described in the linked article, people believed numerous things about the various "races". They based this on scientific or pseudo-scientific findings of the time, that often fit their pre-conceived notions. They used this to justify their prescribed solutions. Whether it was slavery, subjugation or genocide. It is a poor justification for intolerance, and that's part of what the original poster was pointing out. But just because it's a poor justification doesn't mean it hasn't been done. People (as a collective) are not inherently rational or logical. They're easily led by the nose by charismatic speakers and those skilled in rhetoric. They want to believe they're special or that someone else is to blame and when someone presents something that helps them believe that they lap it up. It's happened throughout history, and it'll continue through the future. The best we can hope for is that our understanding of the universe and nature casts light on more things so those that would abuse it have fewer shadows to hide in.
- haberman 12y ago
  > The best we can hope for is that our understanding of the universe and nature casts light on more things so those that would abuse it have fewer shadows to hide in. I suppose. But the question still stands: what if there was rigorous evidence that one race was genetically more intelligent than another? We need to have an understanding that such data would in no way be justification for oppression or mistreatment. We get to choose our own values. That needs to be the message, IMO.
ebfe 12y ago
>Pretend for a second that science discovered convincing/rigorous evidence that white people were less intelligent genetically than other races. That isn't justification for intolerance against white people. We would, however, expect white people to be underrepresented in positions that require high intelligence (medicine, STEM, politics, CEOs, etc) and understand that this underrepresentation would not be indicative of racial discrimination.
- haberman 12y ago
  Yep, that is true. Good point.