4 ms·

I don't understand how Microsoft expects to keep developers working for their ecosystem when they're not building anything marginally better than their existing

I don't understand how Microsoft expects to keep developers working for their ecosystem when they're not building anything marginally better than their existing competition.

k-mcgrady 12y ago
Hololens? If they can pull it off that'll be a hugely important platform for developers. Businesses also still rely on Windows and will for a long time so there is plenty of financial reason for developers to remain part of that ecosystem.
- vezycash 12y ago
  This would be the perfect tagline for Hololens: Hololens - carry a cinema sized tv anywhere you go.
rockdoe 12y ago
One thing they've gotten better at is exactly that: it's no longer "their" ecosystem. They're much more heavily into standard HTML5 now than Google, for example. They don't need people to build for their ecosystem anymore because they are making their ecosystem the same as everyone elses and beating them on quality.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  That's what they're trying to do in THEORY but let's be frank, Windows 8's app ecosystem has flopped even if they're using HTML5/CSS and other standards.
  - rockdoe 12y ago
    But webapps still work fine on Windows, and they'll work on iOS and Android, too.
  - im2w1l 12y ago
    Microsoft should buy or clone Ninite.
_broody 12y ago
What competition? Microsoft may be shunned by startups/hackers (that could change quickly if they keep turning the ship the way they've been), but in your average boring old cube farm they are absolutely ahead of other sellers in both product quality and revenue.
- cgh 12y ago
  They are also shunned by many large shops on the server-side. Where I work now (70,000+ people), there is a strict "no Microsoft on the servers" policy. The "average boring old cube farm" uses Java. Microsoft = Windows + Office.
nvivo 12y ago
Have you heard about .NET? It's one of the best frameworks out there, very well supported, has been improving steadly for the last years and now that it's open source, I only expect more. Yes, there are some minor things that other new frameworks do better, but this is normal, any framework needs time to adapt. But in general, there is not a single thing that .NET is not attacking in all the current trends of development. In fact, a lot of things are being based on .NET, including javascript 7 features like async functions and Netflix's RxJava that is a port of .NET Rx. I'm not saying it's the absolute best framework out there, but it is pretty good. Saying Microsoft is doing nothing in this area is just crazy.
- cowardlydragon 12y ago
  dotNET is an MS only platform. Is dotNET better than the collective JVM language ecosystem from a feature standpoint? Probably not. Sure you want to limit the debate to Java, which is basically a legacy language. The JVM software ecosystem is still much better than dotNET, which took forever to get Hibernate and other framework ports over to it, and the typical developer still takes all microsoft-dictated "best practices" as canon from the holy see. So sure, it's better than C++.
  - tsomctl 12y ago
    dotNET is a MS only platform. These people would like to disagree: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr https://github.com/ajensenwaud/coreclr https://github.com/ajensenwaud/coreclr http://www.mono-project.com/ http://www.mono-project.com/ And does Java support unsigned integers yet?
    - pconner 12y ago
      Are there any major projects built using mono?
      - bcj 12y ago
        Unity is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28game_engine%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28game_engine%29
hipsterrific 12y ago
Developers who use the MS ecosystem knows that their tooling is what makes MS ecosystem worth it. They released Community edition of Visual Studio which is the same as VS Professional but for open-source and independent developers. .net core is now open source and can run on Linux/OS X. It can also use docker, that just made my skill set more appealing. These "marginal" improvements are actually huge steps for developers. For one, MS is leveraging what non-MS developers utilize. Doing so will make their product flexible and developers happy. WPF is getting a boost so that a single app can be written for multiple viewports in Windows 10. That'll simplify development.

I don't understand how Microsoft expects to keep developers working for their ecosystem when they're not building anything marginally better than their existing competition.

k-mcgrady 12y ago

Hololens? If they can pull it off that'll be a hugely important platform for developers. Businesses also still rely on Windows and will for a long time so there is plenty of financial reason for developers to remain part of that ecosystem.

vezycash 12y ago
This would be the perfect tagline for Hololens: Hololens - carry a cinema sized tv anywhere you go.

rockdoe 12y ago

One thing they've gotten better at is exactly that: it's no longer "their" ecosystem. They're much more heavily into standard HTML5 now than Google, for example. They don't need people to build for their ecosystem anymore because they are making their ecosystem the same as everyone elses and beating them on quality.

Someone1234 12y ago
That's what they're trying to do in THEORY but let's be frank, Windows 8's app ecosystem has flopped even if they're using HTML5/CSS and other standards.
- rockdoe 12y ago
  But webapps still work fine on Windows, and they'll work on iOS and Android, too.
- im2w1l 12y ago
  Microsoft should buy or clone Ninite.

_broody 12y ago

What competition? Microsoft may be shunned by startups/hackers (that could change quickly if they keep turning the ship the way they've been), but in your average boring old cube farm they are absolutely ahead of other sellers in both product quality and revenue.

cgh 12y ago
They are also shunned by many large shops on the server-side. Where I work now (70,000+ people), there is a strict "no Microsoft on the servers" policy. The "average boring old cube farm" uses Java. Microsoft = Windows + Office.

nvivo 12y ago

Have you heard about .NET? It's one of the best frameworks out there, very well supported, has been improving steadly for the last years and now that it's open source, I only expect more. Yes, there are some minor things that other new frameworks do better, but this is normal, any framework needs time to adapt. But in general, there is not a single thing that .NET is not attacking in all the current trends of development. In fact, a lot of things are being based on .NET, including javascript 7 features like async functions and Netflix's RxJava that is a port of .NET Rx. I'm not saying it's the absolute best framework out there, but it is pretty good. Saying Microsoft is doing nothing in this area is just crazy.

cowardlydragon 12y ago
dotNET is an MS only platform. Is dotNET better than the collective JVM language ecosystem from a feature standpoint? Probably not. Sure you want to limit the debate to Java, which is basically a legacy language. The JVM software ecosystem is still much better than dotNET, which took forever to get Hibernate and other framework ports over to it, and the typical developer still takes all microsoft-dictated "best practices" as canon from the holy see. So sure, it's better than C++.
- tsomctl 12y ago
  dotNET is a MS only platform. These people would like to disagree: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr https://github.com/ajensenwaud/coreclr https://github.com/ajensenwaud/coreclr http://www.mono-project.com/ http://www.mono-project.com/ And does Java support unsigned integers yet?
  - pconner 12y ago
    Are there any major projects built using mono?
    - bcj 12y ago
      Unity is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28game_engine%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28game_engine%29

hipsterrific 12y ago

Developers who use the MS ecosystem knows that their tooling is what makes MS ecosystem worth it. They released Community edition of Visual Studio which is the same as VS Professional but for open-source and independent developers. .net core is now open source and can run on Linux/OS X. It can also use docker, that just made my skill set more appealing. These "marginal" improvements are actually huge steps for developers. For one, MS is leveraging what non-MS developers utilize. Doing so will make their product flexible and developers happy. WPF is getting a boost so that a single app can be written for multiple viewports in Windows 10. That'll simplify development.