4 ms·

Having worked both in tech and non-tech jobs, I think firing hits people harder in tech companies, for one simple reason: tech companies spend a lot of time and

Having worked both in tech and non-tech jobs, I think firing hits people harder in tech companies, for one simple reason: tech companies spend a lot of time and effort trying to create an environment where people are made to feel special and valued. When people get fired, this entire world is upended, often without warning. The "without warning" part is probably exacerbated in many cases by the fact that especially at tech companies, most people over 35 seem paranoid about giving negative feedback to Millenials, or holding them to firm day-to-day standards in general. No matter what the company is, when it reaches a certain size it's going to have HR people and lawyers, and they're going to put processes in place so even if you want to take the fired person out for a beer and an honest chat about what went wrong, you can't. This discussion is centered on examples of the shitty ways people have been fired, but the really shitty thing we should be focused on is the tendency not to give people firm, dispassionate, detailed guidance on the company's expectations for their performance and subsequently give them accurate feedback on how they have performed relative to that standard. "We want you to crush it and do epic shit; I'm here as a resource if you need anything" might feel good to say to a new employee; it's a lot more pleasant than saying, "I expect you to know how to do X by Y date, while keeping me advised of any changes in A and B", etc. But the latter will reduce both your and their stress over the long run.

ci5er 12y ago
> most people over 35 seem paranoid about giving negative feedback to Millenials, or holding them to firm day-to-day standards in general Can you speak to this? I'm part of the over-35 cohort, but I'm not sure that I understand what you mean.
- leroy_masochist 12y ago
  With the caveat that this certainly doesn't apply to everyone: I think that a lot of millenials, especially those who went to selective colleges, have a hard time dealing with active supervision and negative feedback. I think this is because relative to previous generations, millenials were raised in a more coddling environment -- participation trophies, grade inflation, etc. I think that this coddling is especially pronounced with regard to high-achieving children/teenagers, who by the time they are in their early 20's have a track record of "success" (i.e., straight A's, high SATs, got into college of choice, got job of choice), and who have basically been set up to suffer major emotional trauma at their first encounter with anything that significantly diverges from "success" as they have come to understand it. On the non-millenial side, I think that people of a slightly older generation see themselves in a bit of a conundrum, in that they want to get top talent (technical or not) from the top schools, they perceive that "kids these days" are a bit more sensitive and less overtly competitive than they were when they were that age, and get a little bit scared about the possibility of fucking up and putting the hot new developer (who was a "big recruiting win") in tears. So, they treat the new kid with kid gloves and basically keep their fingers crossed that he/she will be able to do quality work just by figuring things out on his/her own. I actually don't think millenials themselves are responsible for any of the above. It's the fault of their parents, the general environment fostered by the elitist college-industrial complex that encourages everyone to aspire to a 4-year degree (and which idolizes those who go to the top schools), and subsequently managers who don't want to take the risk of actually helping the people under their charge develop professionally and personally.
  - ci5er 12y ago
    That was a much more thought-through response than I had any right to expect. Thank you very much. I do agree that credentials do not equal competency. Although they used to be a proxy (signal) of/for it. Universities manufacture credentials, not competency. Many/most of us still living in a world-of-the-past where a university degree signaled a base-line competency to learn a domain. Not even that is true any more-- even from a top university.
avn2109 12y ago
>> "seem paranoid about giving negative feedback to Millenials..." I am a millennial, and I can't help but notice that as a cohort we really suck at accepting criticism and negative feedback. Not sure why this is, but it's unmistakable.
- MengerSponge 12y ago
  Chicken, meet egg. How can one learn to accept and grow from criticism and feedback without exposure and practice?
- astrodust 12y ago
  It's not all millennial, but a growing subset of them that has this issue. Maybe it's a byproduct of helicopter parenting where they're insulated from the harsh world of mistakes and consequences. Having a parent call in to complain about feedback an employee receives used to be pretty much an urban legend, yet now it's rampant. There's also the ridiculous test-driven culture of schooling, an artifact of the absurdly misguided "No Child Left Behind", where numbers and scores matter far, far more than any actual understanding. Criticism in the form of lower grades can be really damaging to someone's academic career, so no wonder people hate it so much. Decades ago you could squeak through into the program you wanted with high grades and make up the difference in terms of passion for a subject. Now if your grades aren't perfect, you'll never get into competitive programs. What kind of a system is that? When you're conditioned to think that any mistake you make, no matter how minor, goes on your permanent record and may steer your life completely off course, you get a bit touchy about it.
  - avn2109 12y ago
    >> "Having a parent call in to complain about feedback an employee receives..." Wait, seriously? What!!?

ci5er 12y ago

> most people over 35 seem paranoid about giving negative feedback to Millenials, or holding them to firm day-to-day standards in general Can you speak to this? I'm part of the over-35 cohort, but I'm not sure that I understand what you mean.

leroy_masochist 12y ago
With the caveat that this certainly doesn't apply to everyone: I think that a lot of millenials, especially those who went to selective colleges, have a hard time dealing with active supervision and negative feedback. I think this is because relative to previous generations, millenials were raised in a more coddling environment -- participation trophies, grade inflation, etc. I think that this coddling is especially pronounced with regard to high-achieving children/teenagers, who by the time they are in their early 20's have a track record of "success" (i.e., straight A's, high SATs, got into college of choice, got job of choice), and who have basically been set up to suffer major emotional trauma at their first encounter with anything that significantly diverges from "success" as they have come to understand it. On the non-millenial side, I think that people of a slightly older generation see themselves in a bit of a conundrum, in that they want to get top talent (technical or not) from the top schools, they perceive that "kids these days" are a bit more sensitive and less overtly competitive than they were when they were that age, and get a little bit scared about the possibility of fucking up and putting the hot new developer (who was a "big recruiting win") in tears. So, they treat the new kid with kid gloves and basically keep their fingers crossed that he/she will be able to do quality work just by figuring things out on his/her own. I actually don't think millenials themselves are responsible for any of the above. It's the fault of their parents, the general environment fostered by the elitist college-industrial complex that encourages everyone to aspire to a 4-year degree (and which idolizes those who go to the top schools), and subsequently managers who don't want to take the risk of actually helping the people under their charge develop professionally and personally.
- ci5er 12y ago
  That was a much more thought-through response than I had any right to expect. Thank you very much. I do agree that credentials do not equal competency. Although they used to be a proxy (signal) of/for it. Universities manufacture credentials, not competency. Many/most of us still living in a world-of-the-past where a university degree signaled a base-line competency to learn a domain. Not even that is true any more-- even from a top university.

avn2109 12y ago

>> "seem paranoid about giving negative feedback to Millenials..." I am a millennial, and I can't help but notice that as a cohort we really suck at accepting criticism and negative feedback. Not sure why this is, but it's unmistakable.

MengerSponge 12y ago
Chicken, meet egg. How can one learn to accept and grow from criticism and feedback without exposure and practice?
astrodust 12y ago
It's not all millennial, but a growing subset of them that has this issue. Maybe it's a byproduct of helicopter parenting where they're insulated from the harsh world of mistakes and consequences. Having a parent call in to complain about feedback an employee receives used to be pretty much an urban legend, yet now it's rampant. There's also the ridiculous test-driven culture of schooling, an artifact of the absurdly misguided "No Child Left Behind", where numbers and scores matter far, far more than any actual understanding. Criticism in the form of lower grades can be really damaging to someone's academic career, so no wonder people hate it so much. Decades ago you could squeak through into the program you wanted with high grades and make up the difference in terms of passion for a subject. Now if your grades aren't perfect, you'll never get into competitive programs. What kind of a system is that? When you're conditioned to think that any mistake you make, no matter how minor, goes on your permanent record and may steer your life completely off course, you get a bit touchy about it.
- avn2109 12y ago
  >> "Having a parent call in to complain about feedback an employee receives..." Wait, seriously? What!!?