6 ms·

At times my work has brought me into contact with Americans and in general they just do not get sarcasm and satire. Obviously not true of everyone but in genera

by SeanDav 12y ago

At times my work has brought me into contact with Americans and in general they just do not get sarcasm and satire. Obviously not true of everyone but in general in my experience, Americans (not sure about Canadians) take things that you say very literally. Take my advice, when dealing with people from the USA, as a default, avoid irony/sarcasm/satire and even humour until or unless you know they will appreciate it. Not just in a business environment, (where it is a bad idea to attempt this with anyone) but all initial interaction. Not a crticism, just a reality.

bad_user 12y ago
Well, for what is worth, many Europeans, like the Germans, are even worse at satire and humor than Americans are.
- pluma 12y ago
  As a German, I have to agree. My favourite comedians are British, Irish or Australian, not one of them is German. I find most German comedy unwatchable at worst or unfunny at best.
  - throwawayaway 12y ago
    This guy is pretty funny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning_Wehn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning_Wehn Anecdotally, plenty of Germans have a wicked sense of humour - maybe it's a Berlin thing. Not sure their humour would get airtime on TV though.
    - pluma 12y ago
      The only German comedians I can think of that I at times find genuinely funny are political satirists, actually. Maybe because the subject matter simply lends itself better to deadpan humour and absurdism.
- cJ0th 12y ago
  > Well, for what is worth, many Europeans, like the Germans, are even worse at satire and humor than Americans are. As a German, I don't agree. I think Germans get satire and humor. I'd say we are in that respect closer to the British than the American (But I have to admit that the Brits are light years ahead when it comes to everything entertaining) It's just that our media outlets are characterized by another German trait: fear of risk. If a program works well enough than nothing is going to change. Just think about how long "Wetten Dass...?!" was on air. As far as tv programs are concerned I think that "Stromberg" or "Tatortreiniger" aren't too bad.
  - bad_user 12y ago
    That was a semi-joke and your answer kind of proves my point :-) Anyway, this is based on my interactions with a German corporation - I guess my sample is from the corporate world and most corporates, regardless of nationality, lack humor, because those business guys take themselves too seriously.
lelandbatey 12y ago
I'd say to avoid complex signalling in all early communication with people. Until the other party is understood,it seems logical to stick to as clear of communication as possible. I think this is done because American culture can be a very diverse thing. In an effort to be universally understood, we stick to more straightforward communication.
conradfr 12y ago
You can see that if you look at U.S adaptation of Britain or French series or movies, they often lose the tongue-in-cheek humor (if that term makes sense) in the process. The Office U.S became great when they stopped copying the U.K version and I don't think it's just a difference of bleakness as the article states.
- PMan74 12y ago
  Office U.S. and U.K. are really different shows, US Office dropped all pretence of the reality/mockumentary, veering toward more unreal set-ups. Apples and oranges. Both are great, just different.
  - Amezarak 12y ago
    > Office U.S. and U.K. are really different shows, US Office dropped all pretence of the reality/mockumentary, Did it? The US office continued the "looks" at the camera, the interviews; at one point the documentary crew was attacked (and it turned out he was in love with Pam), Jim had them make a video for Pam, and the very last episodes were about the documentary airing and a panel interviewing them about how they felt about their lives being filmed for nine years.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  I would guess that much of the difference is just in the trajectory of expectations. There's also probably a survey problem, the American productions that don't take themselves overly seriously and throw in some tongue in cheek humor aren't going to be the ones borrowing their ideas from someone else. "Burn Notice" comes to mind as a drama series that managed to throw in some humor without making it zany and obvious.
aptwebapps 12y ago
In America sarcasm in speech is usually heavily signaled via the tone of voice. You don't usually just drop it in deadpan. So it's not so much that we don't get sarcasm or satire but we're used to having it more clearly demarcated. At least in speech - satire is quite popular and common in print.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  What you describe is arguably a symptom of people not getting sarcasm. People that enjoy sarcasm have learned the hard lesson that the average listener is oblivious to it, so they talk funny to help them out a little bit.
  - aptwebapps 12y ago
    That might have been the genesis, but it's now continuing on its own.
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      I'm sort of implicitly arguing there that talking funny isn't sarcasm anymore. Much of the fun of sarcasm is in the subtlety.
      - aptwebapps 12y ago
        It's certainly not the same thing, and I prefer the subtle stuff myself, but both types are sarcasm.
throwawayaway 12y ago
I've heard people attribute the failure to perceive humour to the influence of ancestral, puritanical European emigrants to America. With whom "your word" was your bond. I would lay a very large bet that the "/s" tag is an American invention. I find people pleading for unambiguity in sarcasm on the internet amusing, "sarchasm" being one of the better words invented over the last few decades. (Also an American invention?)
- maxerickson 12y ago
  I'm sure you'll win your bet, Americans invented everything.
mkr-hn 12y ago
I've always felt like my humor doesn't fit my upbringing. The bakery at my good old southern grocery store had "Bavarian cream filled donuts." I asked the person working there how many Bavarians it takes. They never got it. But all the other Americans in my internet social group get it, so it's probably not a universal thing.
- john_other_john 12y ago
  How many to make the donuts, or to milk the Bavarians and churn the cream?
  - mkr-hn 12y ago
    It can go many ways. Including how many are turned into cream and used to fill the donut.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
kingmanaz 12y ago
I'm an American and admit that I hate sarcasm. Sarcastic people come across as cowardly; if you have something to say, just come out and say it. No doubt this is cultural. For example, the sarcastic, eye-rolling banter found in Parliament raise my American hackles, making me wonder if any of those MPs had ever been "called out" for their insolent language when young. My wife and I typically sum up such sarcastic people (whether British, American, or otherwise) with the conclusion that "he's never been in a fight". This may be an urban vs. country issue, as in the States I associate sarcasm with the effete, latte-culture found in metropolises, whereas laconic terseness seems more common in America's small towns and agricultural areas.

by SeanDav 12y ago

bad_user 12y ago

Well, for what is worth, many Europeans, like the Germans, are even worse at satire and humor than Americans are.

pluma 12y ago
As a German, I have to agree. My favourite comedians are British, Irish or Australian, not one of them is German. I find most German comedy unwatchable at worst or unfunny at best.
- throwawayaway 12y ago
  This guy is pretty funny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning_Wehn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning_Wehn Anecdotally, plenty of Germans have a wicked sense of humour - maybe it's a Berlin thing. Not sure their humour would get airtime on TV though.
  - pluma 12y ago
    The only German comedians I can think of that I at times find genuinely funny are political satirists, actually. Maybe because the subject matter simply lends itself better to deadpan humour and absurdism.
cJ0th 12y ago
> Well, for what is worth, many Europeans, like the Germans, are even worse at satire and humor than Americans are. As a German, I don't agree. I think Germans get satire and humor. I'd say we are in that respect closer to the British than the American (But I have to admit that the Brits are light years ahead when it comes to everything entertaining) It's just that our media outlets are characterized by another German trait: fear of risk. If a program works well enough than nothing is going to change. Just think about how long "Wetten Dass...?!" was on air. As far as tv programs are concerned I think that "Stromberg" or "Tatortreiniger" aren't too bad.
- bad_user 12y ago
  That was a semi-joke and your answer kind of proves my point :-) Anyway, this is based on my interactions with a German corporation - I guess my sample is from the corporate world and most corporates, regardless of nationality, lack humor, because those business guys take themselves too seriously.

lelandbatey 12y ago

I'd say to avoid complex signalling in all early communication with people. Until the other party is understood,it seems logical to stick to as clear of communication as possible. I think this is done because American culture can be a very diverse thing. In an effort to be universally understood, we stick to more straightforward communication.

conradfr 12y ago

You can see that if you look at U.S adaptation of Britain or French series or movies, they often lose the tongue-in-cheek humor (if that term makes sense) in the process. The Office U.S became great when they stopped copying the U.K version and I don't think it's just a difference of bleakness as the article states.

PMan74 12y ago
Office U.S. and U.K. are really different shows, US Office dropped all pretence of the reality/mockumentary, veering toward more unreal set-ups. Apples and oranges. Both are great, just different.
- Amezarak 12y ago
  > Office U.S. and U.K. are really different shows, US Office dropped all pretence of the reality/mockumentary, Did it? The US office continued the "looks" at the camera, the interviews; at one point the documentary crew was attacked (and it turned out he was in love with Pam), Jim had them make a video for Pam, and the very last episodes were about the documentary airing and a panel interviewing them about how they felt about their lives being filmed for nine years.
maxerickson 12y ago
I would guess that much of the difference is just in the trajectory of expectations. There's also probably a survey problem, the American productions that don't take themselves overly seriously and throw in some tongue in cheek humor aren't going to be the ones borrowing their ideas from someone else. "Burn Notice" comes to mind as a drama series that managed to throw in some humor without making it zany and obvious.

aptwebapps 12y ago

In America sarcasm in speech is usually heavily signaled via the tone of voice. You don't usually just drop it in deadpan. So it's not so much that we don't get sarcasm or satire but we're used to having it more clearly demarcated. At least in speech - satire is quite popular and common in print.

maxerickson 12y ago
What you describe is arguably a symptom of people not getting sarcasm. People that enjoy sarcasm have learned the hard lesson that the average listener is oblivious to it, so they talk funny to help them out a little bit.
- aptwebapps 12y ago
  That might have been the genesis, but it's now continuing on its own.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    I'm sort of implicitly arguing there that talking funny isn't sarcasm anymore. Much of the fun of sarcasm is in the subtlety.
    - aptwebapps 12y ago
      It's certainly not the same thing, and I prefer the subtle stuff myself, but both types are sarcasm.

throwawayaway 12y ago

I've heard people attribute the failure to perceive humour to the influence of ancestral, puritanical European emigrants to America. With whom "your word" was your bond. I would lay a very large bet that the "/s" tag is an American invention. I find people pleading for unambiguity in sarcasm on the internet amusing, "sarchasm" being one of the better words invented over the last few decades. (Also an American invention?)

maxerickson 12y ago
I'm sure you'll win your bet, Americans invented everything.

mkr-hn 12y ago

I've always felt like my humor doesn't fit my upbringing. The bakery at my good old southern grocery store had "Bavarian cream filled donuts." I asked the person working there how many Bavarians it takes. They never got it. But all the other Americans in my internet social group get it, so it's probably not a universal thing.

john_other_john 12y ago
How many to make the donuts, or to milk the Bavarians and churn the cream?
- mkr-hn 12y ago
  It can go many ways. Including how many are turned into cream and used to fill the donut.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

kingmanaz 12y ago

I'm an American and admit that I hate sarcasm. Sarcastic people come across as cowardly; if you have something to say, just come out and say it. No doubt this is cultural. For example, the sarcastic, eye-rolling banter found in Parliament raise my American hackles, making me wonder if any of those MPs had ever been "called out" for their insolent language when young. My wife and I typically sum up such sarcastic people (whether British, American, or otherwise) with the conclusion that "he's never been in a fight". This may be an urban vs. country issue, as in the States I associate sarcasm with the effete, latte-culture found in metropolises, whereas laconic terseness seems more common in America's small towns and agricultural areas.