6 ms·

If you read that article, what I see is that Microsoft has been forced to do the following: Give away everything for free Produce it's own hardware, and at a

by johng 12y ago

If you read that article, what I see is that Microsoft has been forced to do the following: Give away everything for free Produce it's own hardware, and at a loss (Surface may have made $1b now, but it's lost more than that over it's lifetime) Frankly, I don't know how they are making money now a days.

IanDrake 12y ago
They are transitioning to SAAS. Windows 10 upgrade will be "free for a year", but I take that to mean after a year you'll be paying $10 per month for Windows 10. Office 365 is doing well already.
- johng 12y ago
  I may be old school but I am not keen on paying monthly fees for software that I use. That is part of the reason I refuse to upgrade to Adobe's Creative Cloud. Microsoft can't even keep XBOX live up when someone wants to DDOS it, I don't want software that I'm renting that cant run if their servers are down.
  - sejje 12y ago
    What if it can run when the servers are down?
  - freehunter 12y ago
    Shoot, it's been how long since Windows XP and they can't keep their own Windows Update servers running properly. All the time I'm sitting at the update screen waiting, waiting, and waiting, then finally it throws an error. I've never been able to leave feedback on the Windows app store. Downloading from Technet was always hit or miss. My Xbox 360 has lost the ability to update, and there's nothing for the error code it's throwing when I search online. Outlook.com has had several major outages since its launch. Even when it's not being DDoS'd, Xbox Live has given a lot of trouble in matchmaking and download speeds. When it comes to online services, Microsoft has never been reliable in my experience. Not then, not now, not ever. When a Microsoft online service works properly, I'm surprised. When it doesn't work, I expect that and I move on. If you know anything about my comment history, I'm not anti-Microsoft in any way. But man their online services really suck when it comes to reliability.
  - wlesieutre 12y ago
    To clarify the Windows 10 situation, they used some unfortunately vague language when they announced it, but it's not a subscription. The 1-year thing is a limited giveaway period to push Windows 7 users into upgrading quickly rather than waiting.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  You're mistaken about Windows 10. When I heard that announcement I thought the same thing, Microsoft's language was very ambiguous. However they have since clarified, and Windows 10 won't require a subscription fee as far as they have said. The year thing is similar to the $10 Windows 8 promotion (upgrade from 7 to 8 for $10 for the first year). Except this time it is completely free from 7 or 8/8.1 to 10, but if you don't do it in the first year then you'll have to buy an upgrade kit at whatever the retail price is. The only subscription they've talked about with Windows 10 is Software Assurance, but that isn't remotely new, and has existed for enterprise customers since at least 2000. It doesn't apply to consumers. Office 365 is subscription though, and it remains to be seen if they'll continue to do boxed software indefinitely. They already tried to alter the box software licensing terms so you could never upgrade your computer without re-buying it until there was a massive public outcry.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    The free version of Win 10 requires mandatory updates from Microsoft, not just security updates but app updates. There is also a variety of user data tracking and integration with cloud services, Bing, storage, etc. Businesses that want a predictable operating system that receives only security updates, will need to pay for support. In other words, if consumers want what was free with Win7, they have to use a support pricing structure designed for business.
    - nvivo 12y ago
      > The free version of Win 10 requires mandatory updates from Microsoft, not just security updates but app updates. Are you from the future when the final version is out or can you back this up with some credible source? > There is also a variety of user data tracking Aren't you just saying that because the preview version was built specifically to provide lots of feedback data to microsoft (and they were pretty clear about it)? Because a "preview build" and a "final product that is not even released yet" are different things, you know... Unless you are just being a dick on the internet talking shit about things you don't know and don't even use. I heard that some people do that.
blumkvist 12y ago
SQL Server, Windows Server, Sharepoint Server, Exchange Server, Dyanamics NAV, Dyanmics AX, Dynamics GP, Dynamics CRM, Dynamics Marketing, Lync Server, Biztalk Server, System Center Server. Windows Desktop, MS Office, Visual Studio, Xbox (platform AND games), Skype. All of these are profitable. Then you have Azure, which I'm not sure if it is profitable, but will most certainly be. Very profitable. Geesh, how are these guys alive even? They should give Dynamics AX for free, otherwise they are toast!
- serve_yay 12y ago
  I agree with the point you're making. However if you look at that list... it's not all the fresh-faced glitzy stuff people are so excited about. So really, what has changed about MS as a company if they make money in the same ways they did 5 years ago. (Skype as one of the examples, though?! Skype is likely never going to be profitable for MS, right?)
  - blumkvist 12y ago
    Who are these people excited about glitzy stuff? SaaS startups? Do you know what a small part of the world those people are?
- hassaderpdole 12y ago
  Yes,yes, nope,yes,nope,nope,nope,nope,nope,yes,nope,maybe,yes,yes,nope,kids,spies.
bryanlarsen 12y ago
That's basically the point of the article. In Ballmer's Microsoft, they spent cash on dividends. In Nadel's Microsoft, they're spending cash on market share.

by johng 12y ago

IanDrake 12y ago

They are transitioning to SAAS. Windows 10 upgrade will be "free for a year", but I take that to mean after a year you'll be paying $10 per month for Windows 10. Office 365 is doing well already.

johng 12y ago
I may be old school but I am not keen on paying monthly fees for software that I use. That is part of the reason I refuse to upgrade to Adobe's Creative Cloud. Microsoft can't even keep XBOX live up when someone wants to DDOS it, I don't want software that I'm renting that cant run if their servers are down.
- sejje 12y ago
  What if it can run when the servers are down?
- freehunter 12y ago
  Shoot, it's been how long since Windows XP and they can't keep their own Windows Update servers running properly. All the time I'm sitting at the update screen waiting, waiting, and waiting, then finally it throws an error. I've never been able to leave feedback on the Windows app store. Downloading from Technet was always hit or miss. My Xbox 360 has lost the ability to update, and there's nothing for the error code it's throwing when I search online. Outlook.com has had several major outages since its launch. Even when it's not being DDoS'd, Xbox Live has given a lot of trouble in matchmaking and download speeds. When it comes to online services, Microsoft has never been reliable in my experience. Not then, not now, not ever. When a Microsoft online service works properly, I'm surprised. When it doesn't work, I expect that and I move on. If you know anything about my comment history, I'm not anti-Microsoft in any way. But man their online services really suck when it comes to reliability.
- wlesieutre 12y ago
  To clarify the Windows 10 situation, they used some unfortunately vague language when they announced it, but it's not a subscription. The 1-year thing is a limited giveaway period to push Windows 7 users into upgrading quickly rather than waiting.
Someone1234 12y ago
You're mistaken about Windows 10. When I heard that announcement I thought the same thing, Microsoft's language was very ambiguous. However they have since clarified, and Windows 10 won't require a subscription fee as far as they have said. The year thing is similar to the $10 Windows 8 promotion (upgrade from 7 to 8 for $10 for the first year). Except this time it is completely free from 7 or 8/8.1 to 10, but if you don't do it in the first year then you'll have to buy an upgrade kit at whatever the retail price is. The only subscription they've talked about with Windows 10 is Software Assurance, but that isn't remotely new, and has existed for enterprise customers since at least 2000. It doesn't apply to consumers. Office 365 is subscription though, and it remains to be seen if they'll continue to do boxed software indefinitely. They already tried to alter the box software licensing terms so you could never upgrade your computer without re-buying it until there was a massive public outcry.
- walterbell 12y ago
  The free version of Win 10 requires mandatory updates from Microsoft, not just security updates but app updates. There is also a variety of user data tracking and integration with cloud services, Bing, storage, etc. Businesses that want a predictable operating system that receives only security updates, will need to pay for support. In other words, if consumers want what was free with Win7, they have to use a support pricing structure designed for business.
  - nvivo 12y ago
    > The free version of Win 10 requires mandatory updates from Microsoft, not just security updates but app updates. Are you from the future when the final version is out or can you back this up with some credible source? > There is also a variety of user data tracking Aren't you just saying that because the preview version was built specifically to provide lots of feedback data to microsoft (and they were pretty clear about it)? Because a "preview build" and a "final product that is not even released yet" are different things, you know... Unless you are just being a dick on the internet talking shit about things you don't know and don't even use. I heard that some people do that.

blumkvist 12y ago

SQL Server, Windows Server, Sharepoint Server, Exchange Server, Dyanamics NAV, Dyanmics AX, Dynamics GP, Dynamics CRM, Dynamics Marketing, Lync Server, Biztalk Server, System Center Server. Windows Desktop, MS Office, Visual Studio, Xbox (platform AND games), Skype. All of these are profitable. Then you have Azure, which I'm not sure if it is profitable, but will most certainly be. Very profitable. Geesh, how are these guys alive even? They should give Dynamics AX for free, otherwise they are toast!

serve_yay 12y ago
I agree with the point you're making. However if you look at that list... it's not all the fresh-faced glitzy stuff people are so excited about. So really, what has changed about MS as a company if they make money in the same ways they did 5 years ago. (Skype as one of the examples, though?! Skype is likely never going to be profitable for MS, right?)
- blumkvist 12y ago
  Who are these people excited about glitzy stuff? SaaS startups? Do you know what a small part of the world those people are?
hassaderpdole 12y ago
Yes,yes, nope,yes,nope,nope,nope,nope,nope,yes,nope,maybe,yes,yes,nope,kids,spies.

bryanlarsen 12y ago

That's basically the point of the article. In Ballmer's Microsoft, they spent cash on dividends. In Nadel's Microsoft, they're spending cash on market share.