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We definitely throw our weight around and interfere with Iran's domestic affairs. But this is definitely a case of "we think our morals are better than yours" (

We definitely throw our weight around and interfere with Iran's domestic affairs. But this is definitely a case of "we think our morals are better than yours" (and we have bigger guns so we're gonna enforce those morals). The Iranian government funds terrorist groups around the world, and has called for the destruction of certain other countries. So yeah, if we have the ability to stifle them (particularly their nuclear ambitions) I say we go for it. I do feel bad for many of the Iranian people. Many of them do not like their government and are therefore held hostage by the events around them, which they have no control over, and may disagree with.

Ar-Curunir 12y ago
Hmm, and what about the Saudi government that actually does fund terrorist activities and opposes almost everything that America claims to stand for? America is fine with propping up that regime, so why is Iran an issue, when from everything that I've read and experienced (12 years in the Middle East) there have been no implications of Iran in modern terrorist activities? What moral have high ground can you take then?
- somebehemoth 12y ago
  "when from everything that I've read and experienced (12 years in the Middle East) there have been no implications of Iran in modern terrorist activities?" - Iran does not recognize Israel. - Iran supplies political support and weapons to Hamas,[14] an organization classified by Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union and Japan as a terrorist organization. Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian National Authority, has said "Hamas is funded by Iran. It claims it is financed by donations, but the donations are nothing like what it receives from Iran".[15] From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 in 425 attacks, according to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. From 2001 through May 2008, Hamas launched more than 3,000 Qassam rockets and 2,500 mortar attacks into Israel.[16] - Iranian proxies killed an estimated 1,100 US troops in Iraq.[35] In addition, insurgents supported by Iran reportedly committed acts of terrorism.[34][36][37] Lots more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terror... I am not claiming these are all fact, but I think there is little doubt that they are at least "implications" as you put it. (edited for formatting.)
  - discardorama 12y ago
    > - Iran does not recognize Israel. Neither does Saudi Arabia! Why does it even matter, since 32 countries do not recognize Israel; including huge US beneficiaries like Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Pakistan? > From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 ... ... and in turn Israelis killed 4907 Palestinians and wounded 8611? If the number of killed is a factor in determining one's "terroristness", then surely you can't claim that Israel is a victim here! Just last year, in Operation Protective Edge, 73 Israelis were killed and 664 wounded; whereas 2100 Palestinians were killed and 11000 wounded: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualti... > Iranian proxies killed an estimated 1,100 US troops in Iraq. ... and Saudi proxies killed nearly 4000 on 9/11 !
    - colordrops 12y ago
      I can't help but think that many of the people posting on these boards are either shills or have psychological disorders, because they ignore completely obvious facts like the ones you point out and continue to hold onto their views. That type of willful blind spot is not tolerated with other subjects here on Hacker News.
      - olympus 12y ago
        There are political differences to be expected, but let me try to explain why the USA is willing to rub elbows with the Saudis and not with Iran. My credentials are this: I spent 6 months working on strategy in the CENTCOM AOR bitching about every single country in the Persian/Arabian Gulf every single day. The choice is one of picking the lesser of two evils. The USA has a great interest in keeping and increasing its geopolitical influence in the Middle East (Israel is not included in this region even though we have to plan for their actions). The two main regional powers in the Middle East are Saudi Arabia and Iran. We used to be friendly with both countries back in the 1970s but Iran had a revolution and the Ayatollah didn't want anything to do with us, and it remains that way today. Although the current President of Iran (Rouhani) has mentioned that he would like to improve relations with the USA, he is not the boss regardless of how many people voted for him; the Ayatollah is the Supreme Leader and he still openly calls for the death of Israel and the USA. So we obviously can't be friends with Iran. That leaves us with Saudi Arabia, and while they also sponsor terrorism, they are all we have left. We overlook their actions, and in exchange we are allowed to keep a significant military force there, which props up their government and provides them with a pretty big stick when negotiating with the smaller countries in the region (the only other stick they really have is their gargantuan oil production). So our PATRIOT batteries protect the family of Saud from Iran, and we get to have a little say in their goings on. It's as simple as that. Just about everybody we deal with is a piece of scum that would like to see the USA brought down a peg, but Saudi Arabia doesn't do it openly and they depend on our money and protection, so we get along a little better than them. Iran openly calls for our destruction. The last several US presidents, both Republican and Democrat have decided that it's better for us to support Saudi Arabia than not have any influence in the Middle East at all. The only other option is to withdraw our forces (without Saudi Arabia's cooperation we would probably lose our basing agreements with all the other countries in the region) and have no say whatsoever and watch as the Middle East goes in a direction that isn't beneficial to the USA in the slightest. --And to get back to the topic of the parent post, yeah, this is exactly what the NSA is supposed to do. It is supposed to do two things: Secure the information of the USA and its citizens, and to undermine the security of everything else. A lot of US citizens were upset when they found out that the NSA vacuum had gotten their information as well, and rightfully so. But the NSA is still primarily focused on targeting external entities, and although those entities are well within their rights to complain, don't expect the NSA to stop just because someone didn't like it. Regardless of what a federal judge says about collecting on US citizens, no judge will EVER tell the NSA to stop its clandestine activities on foreign networks.
Tloewald 12y ago
The US flies drones over foreign countries and kills people with them, topples governments that it doesn't like (or that US companies don't like), invades countries on false or trivial pretexts, yada yada. Ob yeah, and funds terroriets and death squads. So claiming moral superiority over other countries is pretty difficult.
mercurial 12y ago
> We definitely throw our weight around and interfere with Iran's domestic affairs. But this is definitely a case of "we think our morals are better than yours" (and we have bigger guns so we're gonna enforce those morals). While I'm not privy to US policy-making, it seems that if morality is involved, it's only by accident. US policy is about protecting US interests, and as such, is primarily motivated by greed, fear and often expansionism. The well-being of non-Americans is completely irrelevant. This is no different in essence from many other countries, who similarly brandish morality as a shield when it's convenient. The difference is that the US is more interventionist than most, and has the biggest stick.

Ar-Curunir 12y ago

Hmm, and what about the Saudi government that actually does fund terrorist activities and opposes almost everything that America claims to stand for? America is fine with propping up that regime, so why is Iran an issue, when from everything that I've read and experienced (12 years in the Middle East) there have been no implications of Iran in modern terrorist activities? What moral have high ground can you take then?

somebehemoth 12y ago
"when from everything that I've read and experienced (12 years in the Middle East) there have been no implications of Iran in modern terrorist activities?" - Iran does not recognize Israel. - Iran supplies political support and weapons to Hamas,[14] an organization classified by Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union and Japan as a terrorist organization. Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian National Authority, has said "Hamas is funded by Iran. It claims it is financed by donations, but the donations are nothing like what it receives from Iran".[15] From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 in 425 attacks, according to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. From 2001 through May 2008, Hamas launched more than 3,000 Qassam rockets and 2,500 mortar attacks into Israel.[16] - Iranian proxies killed an estimated 1,100 US troops in Iraq.[35] In addition, insurgents supported by Iran reportedly committed acts of terrorism.[34][36][37] Lots more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terror... I am not claiming these are all fact, but I think there is little doubt that they are at least "implications" as you put it. (edited for formatting.)
- discardorama 12y ago
  > - Iran does not recognize Israel. Neither does Saudi Arabia! Why does it even matter, since 32 countries do not recognize Israel; including huge US beneficiaries like Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Pakistan? > From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 ... ... and in turn Israelis killed 4907 Palestinians and wounded 8611? If the number of killed is a factor in determining one's "terroristness", then surely you can't claim that Israel is a victim here! Just last year, in Operation Protective Edge, 73 Israelis were killed and 664 wounded; whereas 2100 Palestinians were killed and 11000 wounded: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualti... > Iranian proxies killed an estimated 1,100 US troops in Iraq. ... and Saudi proxies killed nearly 4000 on 9/11 !
  - colordrops 12y ago
    I can't help but think that many of the people posting on these boards are either shills or have psychological disorders, because they ignore completely obvious facts like the ones you point out and continue to hold onto their views. That type of willful blind spot is not tolerated with other subjects here on Hacker News.
    - olympus 12y ago
      There are political differences to be expected, but let me try to explain why the USA is willing to rub elbows with the Saudis and not with Iran. My credentials are this: I spent 6 months working on strategy in the CENTCOM AOR bitching about every single country in the Persian/Arabian Gulf every single day. The choice is one of picking the lesser of two evils. The USA has a great interest in keeping and increasing its geopolitical influence in the Middle East (Israel is not included in this region even though we have to plan for their actions). The two main regional powers in the Middle East are Saudi Arabia and Iran. We used to be friendly with both countries back in the 1970s but Iran had a revolution and the Ayatollah didn't want anything to do with us, and it remains that way today. Although the current President of Iran (Rouhani) has mentioned that he would like to improve relations with the USA, he is not the boss regardless of how many people voted for him; the Ayatollah is the Supreme Leader and he still openly calls for the death of Israel and the USA. So we obviously can't be friends with Iran. That leaves us with Saudi Arabia, and while they also sponsor terrorism, they are all we have left. We overlook their actions, and in exchange we are allowed to keep a significant military force there, which props up their government and provides them with a pretty big stick when negotiating with the smaller countries in the region (the only other stick they really have is their gargantuan oil production). So our PATRIOT batteries protect the family of Saud from Iran, and we get to have a little say in their goings on. It's as simple as that. Just about everybody we deal with is a piece of scum that would like to see the USA brought down a peg, but Saudi Arabia doesn't do it openly and they depend on our money and protection, so we get along a little better than them. Iran openly calls for our destruction. The last several US presidents, both Republican and Democrat have decided that it's better for us to support Saudi Arabia than not have any influence in the Middle East at all. The only other option is to withdraw our forces (without Saudi Arabia's cooperation we would probably lose our basing agreements with all the other countries in the region) and have no say whatsoever and watch as the Middle East goes in a direction that isn't beneficial to the USA in the slightest. --And to get back to the topic of the parent post, yeah, this is exactly what the NSA is supposed to do. It is supposed to do two things: Secure the information of the USA and its citizens, and to undermine the security of everything else. A lot of US citizens were upset when they found out that the NSA vacuum had gotten their information as well, and rightfully so. But the NSA is still primarily focused on targeting external entities, and although those entities are well within their rights to complain, don't expect the NSA to stop just because someone didn't like it. Regardless of what a federal judge says about collecting on US citizens, no judge will EVER tell the NSA to stop its clandestine activities on foreign networks.

Tloewald 12y ago

The US flies drones over foreign countries and kills people with them, topples governments that it doesn't like (or that US companies don't like), invades countries on false or trivial pretexts, yada yada. Ob yeah, and funds terroriets and death squads. So claiming moral superiority over other countries is pretty difficult.

mercurial 12y ago

> We definitely throw our weight around and interfere with Iran's domestic affairs. But this is definitely a case of "we think our morals are better than yours" (and we have bigger guns so we're gonna enforce those morals). While I'm not privy to US policy-making, it seems that if morality is involved, it's only by accident. US policy is about protecting US interests, and as such, is primarily motivated by greed, fear and often expansionism. The well-being of non-Americans is completely irrelevant. This is no different in essence from many other countries, who similarly brandish morality as a shield when it's convenient. The difference is that the US is more interventionist than most, and has the biggest stick.