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(2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof) I've alwa

(2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof) I've always thought this part was, by far, the most likely. It would be unethical to create a simulation in which the simulated beings were sophisticated enough to be self-aware and capable of significant suffering. It's the same thing that's caused me to shift from "I don't believe in god" to "I believe there probably isn't a god". For example, infants have been raped in Africa due to the virgin cleansing myth, and every year thousands of people kill themselves due to unmanageable misery. Not to mention the way that so many people die of "natural" causes, e.g. drowning in their own phlegm only to be revived by hospital staff for another go-around.

ccvannorman 12y ago
>It would be unethical to create a simulation in which the simulated beings were sophisticated enough to be self-aware and capable of significant suffering Well .. is it though? What if everything is so blissful and boring in the future that people intentionally torture themselves for decades at a time by experiencing "Earth-sim" so that they can build character / enjoy the utopia they've created? Or maybe this simulation is the rehabilitation track for criminals? There are a number of reasons to "suffer" and suffering shouldn't be cast out as unethical because we don't like it in the current context.
- O____________O 12y ago
  There are a number of reasons to "suffer" and suffering shouldn't be cast out as unethical because we don't like it in the current context. Please do provide some reasons why raping a day-old newborn infant wouldn't be considered unethical.
swatow 12y ago
There's a Greg Egan novel where one character is invited to work to help build such a simulation. The character is shocked that the simulation creator was aware of the issue of suffering, and had plans to minimize suffering in the simulation. They found this more shocking then if the creator hadn't thought of the issue
pcthrowaway 12y ago
By this same argument, wouldn't having children be unethical? (I believe it is by the way)
- O____________O 12y ago
  I suppose it would be, if you had reason to believe there was a sufficient likelihood of a sufficiently negative outcome. It's probably not a concern for anyone reading this, though.
  - pcthrowaway 12y ago
    You said it would be unethical for people to create a simulation wherein the simulated minds might experience suffering. If you have children, you are creating new lives that are capable of experiencing suffering, and who inevitably will at times.
    - O____________O 12y ago
      wherein the simulated minds might experience suffering you are creating new lives that are capable of experiencing suffering, and who inevitably will at times Hence my statement: if you had reason to believe there was a sufficient likelihood of a sufficiently negative outcome.
      - seba_dos1 12y ago
        So doesn't that also apply to the whole simulated universe as well?
        O____________O 12y ago
        Yes? Either I'm misunderstanding your comment, or we're just running in a circle now.
        seba_dos1 12y ago

ccvannorman 12y ago

>It would be unethical to create a simulation in which the simulated beings were sophisticated enough to be self-aware and capable of significant suffering Well .. is it though? What if everything is so blissful and boring in the future that people intentionally torture themselves for decades at a time by experiencing "Earth-sim" so that they can build character / enjoy the utopia they've created? Or maybe this simulation is the rehabilitation track for criminals? There are a number of reasons to "suffer" and suffering shouldn't be cast out as unethical because we don't like it in the current context.

O____________O 12y ago
There are a number of reasons to "suffer" and suffering shouldn't be cast out as unethical because we don't like it in the current context. Please do provide some reasons why raping a day-old newborn infant wouldn't be considered unethical.

swatow 12y ago

There's a Greg Egan novel where one character is invited to work to help build such a simulation. The character is shocked that the simulation creator was aware of the issue of suffering, and had plans to minimize suffering in the simulation. They found this more shocking then if the creator hadn't thought of the issue

pcthrowaway 12y ago

By this same argument, wouldn't having children be unethical? (I believe it is by the way)

O____________O 12y ago
I suppose it would be, if you had reason to believe there was a sufficient likelihood of a sufficiently negative outcome. It's probably not a concern for anyone reading this, though.
- pcthrowaway 12y ago
  You said it would be unethical for people to create a simulation wherein the simulated minds might experience suffering. If you have children, you are creating new lives that are capable of experiencing suffering, and who inevitably will at times.
  - O____________O 12y ago
    wherein the simulated minds might experience suffering you are creating new lives that are capable of experiencing suffering, and who inevitably will at times Hence my statement: if you had reason to believe there was a sufficient likelihood of a sufficiently negative outcome.
    - seba_dos1 12y ago
      So doesn't that also apply to the whole simulated universe as well?
      - O____________O 12y ago
        Yes? Either I'm misunderstanding your comment, or we're just running in a circle now.
        seba_dos1 12y ago