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>No wife means not only a lonely existence, but also no children to care for you in your old age. If that isn't failure, I don't know what is. This line of thi

>No wife means not only a lonely existence, but also no children to care for you in your old age. If that isn't failure, I don't know what is. This line of thinking just seems juvenile to me. Do you really believe the pinnacle of human achievement (and the only one that matters) is being in a long term relationship and having children?

saraid216 12y ago
You're actually giving him too much credit. Speaking as someone whose family has the same values, "having children" isn't enough. They have to be obedient and willing to care for you in your old age. Success, in these terms, is breeding future slaves for your twilight years. The academic term for this is "filial piety". It also includes things like guilting your children for all the things you forced them into doing, such as learning the violin or piano. To state the obvious, I am kinda disagreeable to this presumption. Similarly, he's not just talking about a "long term relationship", but a much more economic arrangement where one's wife fulfills your needs for companionship and breeding in return for the bread you win. Unsurprisingly, this is something that many modern Chinese women have started balking at.
wtbob 12y ago
> Do you really believe the pinnacle of human achievement (and the only one that matters) is being in a long term relationship and having children? Can anyone with any sense of Darwinian evolution not believe that having children is the goal of life? Can anyone with any emotional sense at all not believe that a lasting relationship with another is not the highest of pursuits?
- saraid216 12y ago
  Yes and yes. I'm personally far more interested in passing down a cultural legacy than squirting my genes into an egg, and I'm more inclined towards raising the average happiness of the world than just a single relationship. The funny thing about belief is that it doesn't necessarily extend from basic facts like having read the same book.
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  Darwinian evolution is useless when applied to modern humanity. There is no "survival of the fittest". Consider also that individual genetics are irrelevant to breeding success when put against external factors like security and wealth. Our knowledge and ideas are much more valuable to humanities survival than our individual genetics at this point. I would also personally argue that once you gain the ability to modify the human genome any desire for classical evolution is deeply flawed. Relationships are largely a holdover from the evolutionary need to reproduce, although obviously it's good for our happiness and emotional state to satisfy those desires in our current form.
- EliRivers 12y ago
  Can anyone with any sense of Darwinian evolution not believe that having children is the goal of life? I can. Life doesn't have a goal. It's not some kind of plan. It just happens. Can anyone with any emotional sense at all not believe that a lasting relationship with another is not the highest of pursuits? I can. A lasting relationship with another? A fucking guinea pig can do that. Humans are capable of so much more.

saraid216 12y ago

You're actually giving him too much credit. Speaking as someone whose family has the same values, "having children" isn't enough. They have to be obedient and willing to care for you in your old age. Success, in these terms, is breeding future slaves for your twilight years. The academic term for this is "filial piety". It also includes things like guilting your children for all the things you forced them into doing, such as learning the violin or piano. To state the obvious, I am kinda disagreeable to this presumption. Similarly, he's not just talking about a "long term relationship", but a much more economic arrangement where one's wife fulfills your needs for companionship and breeding in return for the bread you win. Unsurprisingly, this is something that many modern Chinese women have started balking at.

wtbob 12y ago

> Do you really believe the pinnacle of human achievement (and the only one that matters) is being in a long term relationship and having children? Can anyone with any sense of Darwinian evolution not believe that having children is the goal of life? Can anyone with any emotional sense at all not believe that a lasting relationship with another is not the highest of pursuits?

saraid216 12y ago
Yes and yes. I'm personally far more interested in passing down a cultural legacy than squirting my genes into an egg, and I'm more inclined towards raising the average happiness of the world than just a single relationship. The funny thing about belief is that it doesn't necessarily extend from basic facts like having read the same book.
Omniusaspirer 12y ago
Darwinian evolution is useless when applied to modern humanity. There is no "survival of the fittest". Consider also that individual genetics are irrelevant to breeding success when put against external factors like security and wealth. Our knowledge and ideas are much more valuable to humanities survival than our individual genetics at this point. I would also personally argue that once you gain the ability to modify the human genome any desire for classical evolution is deeply flawed. Relationships are largely a holdover from the evolutionary need to reproduce, although obviously it's good for our happiness and emotional state to satisfy those desires in our current form.
EliRivers 12y ago
Can anyone with any sense of Darwinian evolution not believe that having children is the goal of life? I can. Life doesn't have a goal. It's not some kind of plan. It just happens. Can anyone with any emotional sense at all not believe that a lasting relationship with another is not the highest of pursuits? I can. A lasting relationship with another? A fucking guinea pig can do that. Humans are capable of so much more.