23 ms·

The Tyranny of the Forced Smile

156 points by boh 12y ago

jamesli 12y ago
I have conducted a few hundred of interviews for software engineers and DBAs in the last three years. I do want to see the passions of the candidates at the professions. It is a big plus in my eyes. On the other hand, I am not impressed by "unequivocal statement". For seniors positions, I don't ask questions with a fixed answer. I prefer to listen to the candidates's opinions, to analyze the pros and cons of an approach, etc. I consider it low intelligence by any "unequivocal statement" for these questions.
analog31 12y ago
In one of my sidelines, I'm a freelance musician. Over the years I've learned how to keep a smile on my face, under pretty much any circumstances. This has proven to be a valuable skill in my day job as well. The smile is more subtle in the workplace -- just a cheerful disposition -- but it's still there. And it helps that I am in fact a generally cheerful person. As for knowing how to show an appropriate level of passion, I would expect this of a senior level person as well, because they will be interacting with colleagues, customers, etc.
- A_COMPUTER 12y ago
  An artist friend of mine was mass-defriended on facebook after a vitrirolic angerpost about religion. Everybody there knew his opinion on religion I know for a fact many agreed with him, but they didn't want anger and unpleasantness thrown in their faces. This has undoubtedly affected his ability to get work in the future.
lisa_henderson 12y ago
In the USA, unemployment was elevated for several years, and is only now coming down to reasonable levels. More so, if you lack a college degree (and 74% of the USA population lacks a college degree) then your chance of getting a good job is non-existent. In Europe, the unemployment rate is still elevated in most of the 27 countries in the EU. So what could possibly justify this sentence: "Admittedly, the dynamism of Western capitalism depends upon people who work with missionary zeal, who refuse to accept that a job is merely a job." Is it the "the dynamism of Western capitalism" that causes people to pretend to like their job, or is it the scarcity of good jobs, which forces workers to engage in an exaggerated pantomime of missionary zeal?
- ekanes 12y ago
  > Is it the "the dynamism of Western capitalism" that causes people to pretend to like their job, or is it the scarcity of good jobs, which forces workers to engage in an exaggerated pantomime of missionary zeal? Where in your choices are the people who love their work?
  - icebraining 12y ago
    Those aren't being forced to smile, which is the context here.
- jes 12y ago
  Thanks for an interesting comment. I wonder if it's true that the unemployment rate is coming down to reasonable levels. As I understand it, the unemployment rate that is typically reported excludes people that have given up looking for work. I don't know if this is correct, but let's say that you had an economy where there were no jobs available. Precisely none. Over the long term, the unemployment rate would have to drift down to almost zero, as more and more people realized that there were no jobs available and gave up looking for work. As regards the sentence you ask about, I think I am one of the people that does not look at his work as merely a job. Perhaps it's because I do try to distinguish between my work, my craft, my trade, from the other aspects of who happens to be paying my invoices. Thoughts?
  - jonas21 12y ago
    You're right that the official unemployment rate reported by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (U3) excludes "discouraged workers" who have given up looking for work. However, the BLS also publishes a rate that includes discouraged workers (U4), as well as a rate that includes "marginally attached workers" who would like to work, but for whatever reason have not looked for work recently (U5). All 3 of these have returned to normal levels [1]. There's also the U6 rate, which includes workers who are part-time, but would like to work full-time. [2] [1] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10Uy http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10Uy [2] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10UE http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10UE
im2w1l 12y ago
Just 13% of people feel passionate about their job (worldwide). In the US the figure is 30%. http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/10/unhappy-employees-outnumber-happy-ones-by-two-to-one-worldwide/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/10/unhappy-em... http://www.ryot.org/gallup-poll-70-americans-disengaged-jobs/376177 http://www.ryot.org/gallup-poll-70-americans-disengaged-jobs...
- desdiv 12y ago
  The per country break down can be found here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engaged-work.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engage... Notably, Syria is at the bottom of the list with 0% of their worker being "actively engaged" in their jobs.
lohengramm 12y ago
I live in Brazil, and I was born in a bad location in the country. My young ages have been a real pain and I learned not to smile. I started working as a programmer even before getting into college, because I needed money to actually pay the college, and so I have lived a very black and white life for ever. Today, I see that having a nice and beautiful past and present that makes it easy to smile everyday is a more valuable trait to get a job than actually having technical skills. I don't personally like the way it works but, hey, it's the real world.
- ryan-allen 12y ago
  If you keep working hard and are good at your work employers and clients will hopefully see past your demeanour. Some of the most competent people I know come across as grumpy and aloof. They get respect because they know their stuff and care about their work, and that shines through.
- sethammons 12y ago
  Lots of people go through bad times. No matter how terrible your life may have been, there is likely someone who had it worse off and appears today as happy and smiles. I know it can be hard, but try to not focus on the great advantage others may have due to their roll of the dice and the situation to which they were born. Do the best you can do. Learn what you can. Don't worry about what you can't change. Take joy in small victories. Choose to be happy. Best of luck.
HarryHirsch 12y ago
This Everything2 writeup explains way better than I can what's wrong with passionately loving your job: http://everything2.com/title/F%25C3%25BCr+sechs+Groschen%252C+Fritz%252C+ist%2527s+heute+genug http://everything2.com/title/F%25C3%25BCr+sechs+Groschen%252... There are limits to duty, but there are no limits to passion, that's why your employer wants you to be passionate about him. Especially in startuplandia. Hint, grasshopper, he is not passionate about you, he views you as a resource to be strip-mined. The personnel department is appropiately called "Human Resources" these days. It's just this - why do employees internalize the "passion meme" without any trace of cynicism, and why do customers condone the state of affairs?
- pimlottc 12y ago
  The restaurant business, particular back-of-house, is particular bad in this respect. Working conditions in most kitchens are horrible - long hours, uncomfortable environments, physical demanding, often dangerous and horribly underpaid with few benefits. But yet, people do it. They know they are getting screwed over, they know they are often destroying their bodies, but they keep on doing it. Because people who want to cook are truly passionate about it. Cooking for someone is an incredible intimate and loving act; one that no amount of corporatism or job function abstraction can dispel. It is an act in which the symbolism and the functionalism are inseparable. When you are serving food, you are literally nourishing people. You are literally providing the substance they need to survive. You are literally crafting, with your own hands, the matter that will become a literal part of another human being. Such a primal act naturally stirs a lot of passion, but likewise, as you say, great opportunities for abuse. Most kitchen employees don't make terribly much more than minimum wage. In expensive cities like San Francisco or New York, it's almost impossible to make a living wage. Even in high-end restaurants.
  - taivare 12y ago
    Most of the back-of-house employees in restaurant sector have dependency issues, booze and drugs and management is always aware of it. Go in the back lot where they park and you will special plates on more then one car, in my state the plates are all yellow. If the restaurant industry ever drug tested like the drug store chains do they would easily lose sixty-percent of back of the house staff.
ohazi 12y ago
David Mitchell's customer service rant on QI is particularly on point here. http://youtu.be/_LiDTKEF1ek http://youtu.be/_LiDTKEF1ek
6d0debc071 12y ago
Perhaps the problem is less that it's asked that people love their jobs but more that the question is asked about jobs that it's difficult to see anyone honestly loving. Do I love my job? Sure. And I'd love any job analogous with it as well.... But I can't say that I've loved or even vaguely enjoyed all the jobs I've had, to do so would have made me a schmuck.
mc32 12y ago
I think he brings up a few good points, but he muddles through the whole article and peppers it with irrelevant things --which make me wonder about his rigor. I mean, what does his "astrological sign" have to do with anything? It's absolutely silly. In addition, he comes to this from only an American experience. This is not a symptom you only see in the US. It's saccharine in many places. That said, saccharine or not, it does have a purpose as much as any other line of questioning. In other words, passion, love, whatever, while they may or may not be an indicator of how well someone will execute their job --the main purpose of such questions, in my mind, is to see how well prepared you are for something you can expect. In other words, it's not that they expect a sincere answer or they are trying to torture you and see how you wiggle yourself out, but it's rather to gauge how adept you are at preparation. You know the questions is coming, yet, did you take the preparation to come up with a sensible answer. That is the function of the question. On the other hand, if we were to take these questions literally, yes, then they are quite silly expectations. I have had them at just about every professional job and they are absurd. But we know it's all part of meta-communication. Do I wish it were simpler and didn't recourse to this style of communication, yes, but I think I understand its function. On the other hand, I do enjoy people regarding their job as an act. A role to fulfill. When we understand our jobs to be essentially a role to fulfill, it's liberating in a way. It's no longer you, it's your job personae. Compare service workers in Japan and Europe. Which ones deal with their situation better? I believe the Japanese worker has a better understanding of the situation. They put on their persona and take it from there. To see it any other way is to see an actor performing a dark character and feeling bad for the actor. No, to the actor it makes no difference. It's an act. That said, I've come across very good service workers in Europe as well. They very well understood their function and were happy to play it out.
- spcoll 12y ago
  > I think she brings up a few good points, but she Although the article might feel like it could have been written by a woman, its author Paul Jaskunas is a man.
  - mc32 12y ago
    Thanks for the heads up, fixed.
phabian 12y ago
I think Jim Carrey pointed one obvious thing about laughing in his hillarious way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRyYT62VZdY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRyYT62VZdY
nakedrobot2 12y ago
Here in the Czech Republic, there is no forced smile. It is not a part of the culture, people generally don't do it, and people here generally see americans (especially americans) as fake, superficial, and insincere. I'm a bit on the fence about it. Central Europeans, including Czechs are a rather gloomy bunch :-) especially in the winter. Americans are definitely more cheerful, and it is not fake. Ok, sometimes it is but generally speaking Americans are in fact more cheerful and optimistic. Ok, Czechs have five centuries of being conquered and subjugated of course, so let's not draw too many conclusions. In terms of smiling strangers, well, I'd like a bit more of it than we have here in the Czech Republic (where there is very little)
- Swizec 12y ago
  Ha, five centuries! We Slovenians have had 12. From 828 AD to 1991 AD. But yes, us Slavs are a gloomy bunch. But only on the outside and only to strangers. Particularly Americans. Whenever I'm in the States I commonly get accused of being emotionless and of having a deadpan face. At the same time, I feel everybody I meet there is a clown and I always make sure to tune down their enthusiasm. If an American says something is super awesome and the best thing ever, it's probably kinda okayish. Anyway, the interesting thing I've found comparing Slavs to Americans is that while Slavs are weary of strangers, they open up much sooner. You can be friends with Americans for months and years, but if you haven't gone to the same kindergarten together, you will never be a true friend. Whereas with Slavs, you could have met at a bar three hours ago, and already you're confessing your deepest darkest secrets to each other and are practically best friends. Source: having lived in the States for some time PS: to be fair, most Europeans I've met both in Europe and in the US share this immediately friends trait. So far none of the Americans I've met have, possibly because of The Big City effect.
  - beachstartup 12y ago
    you're european, so you can make instant-friends with europeans quite easily. i'm american, and i can make instant friends with americans. i did it throughout my 20s when traveling here in the US and overseas. in fact i've done it all over 4 continents now. this doesn't seem to be a racial or cultural trait. some people are friendly, some aren't. perhaps the fact that you describe yourself as 'gloomy' is the reason americans do not find it easy to befriend you even after a few drinks.
chestnut-tree 12y ago
Slight digression, but speaking of fake smiles...I'm reminded of a quiz on the BBC website called Spot the Fake Smile. There are 20 short clips of people smiling. Can you spot which ones are fake and which ones are genuine? (The test takes about 10 mins) http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/
- beaumartinez 12y ago
  I tried to take the test—but the fifth time I pressed "next" it gave me a 404. The key to faking a real smile is in wrinkling the eyes.
  - didsomeonesay 12y ago
    > The key to faking a real smile is in wrinkling the eyes. The wrinkling is not a very reliable indicator of fake smiles [1]. A real smile does indeed involve muscles around the eyes, but wrinkling could be caused by the cheek muscles pushing upward too. Some more indicators of a real smile are, IIRC - curling corners of the mouth - corners of the eye pushing inward - short duration - it starts and ends smoothly - symmetry [1] Source: Having recently read "Telling Lies" by Paul Ekman (and that was a HN recommendation too)
    - beaumartinez 12y ago
      Thank you! I'll keep an eye out for those.
araes 12y ago
This article starts to touch on something profound but then mostly skims over an in-depth discussion with reasoning. At its core, this is really about human social response and compelled social behavior. The article could be about "bitchy resting face" or tipping, or any other form of compelled social niceity and it could delve into the same topics. People see certain social cues, and they interpret them based on past experience. People who smile at you, and talk in a certain frequency range, and use certain words, must be nice and want to help you. Anyone who owns a business wants all customers to feel that emotion whenever they associate with your business, and implicit social contracts evolve that basically codify that. It's like "The Game" in some respects. There are certain social cues / responses that most people have internalized so deeply that they're barely aware they respond to them. Most people interpret offhand compliments from a person with apparent detatched interest as intriguing. They interpret questions about them as interest. Easy smiles as confidence. Ect... With the aforementioned tipping, it's a similar mechanism that reinforces certain behavior in wait staff. In a sense, it's a way that those with money can compel behavior from those that don't. An aspect of the symbolic power that wealth effectively represents. Anyhow, lunch arrived, so I'm done, and I'll have to make that very choice in a few moments.
rosstex 12y ago
I will never succumb to forced indifference!
- ryan-allen 12y ago
  Give it a few years, you wont have to force anything!
DanielBMarkham 12y ago
I am a consultant. I help teams perform better. So I get to travel to a lot of places, work in a lot of organizations, and "start over" with each new gig. A few years ago I thought I would try something different. I decided that no matter how I felt each day, I was going to smile and be as friendly as possible to everybody I met. At times, walking through the hallways of the new job, I felt like an idiot. But I didn't care. I just smiled and tried to be friendly. I know that many times I probably smiled and said hello to the same people twice -- as if I had never seen them that day. I know that at times I must have appeared simple-minded. It was a horrible feeling that first week. Then something strange happened. People started smiling back. I would be working off to the side of a large room, and folks would come over and say hello. People -- I had no idea what their names were or what their jobs were -- would ask me how I was doing. So I kept the experiment going. After a month, I had some really bad personal news and I know I came in to work very downtrodden. At this point, all of that "fake happiness" I had put in the bank came back to me. The anonymous people I had smiled at? They now made an effort to cheer me up. No effort was required on my part. If I came in upset, within a couple of hours of having other people smile at me, I felt like smiling back at everybody else. This went on for a few months. It was one of the most enjoyable jobs I've ever had, and when I left, about a dozen people came over and told me that I had done a great job and they would miss me. (I just did my normal job) Lesson? Smiles are very, very powerful social tools, even if they are forced. They cheer other people up, they cheer you up, and over time they provide some kind of weird social insurance that you can tap into when you're having a bad day. What blew my mind was that the fake part wasn't even important. Simply by trying you got all of the benefits.
fishnchips 12y ago
I remember this director from a Big Company pitching that I join his team after I decided to maybe change jobs. His enthusiasm was insane and eventually I ended up accepting the offer (which was like 20% better than what I got in my old place) and on my 1st day I learned that the guy not only left but went with a bang, too. Having been raised in the Eastern Block I still can't help but wonder how Americans do it.
- pacala 12y ago
  Hi there, comrade. Perhaps Americans are using the same coping mechanism we were using to deal with the exuberant and completely inane "party line". As outsiders, and engineers on top of it, we just don't pick up the inanity cues that everybody else in the room understands instinctively. Kind of like everyone would sing the International at the beginning of the day, or read an omage to the party once a quarter, but think nothing of it other than being happy to be done with a slightly ridiculous but overall insignificant chore.
  - fishnchips 12y ago
    I was born in 1983 so I never experienced much in terms of ideological indoctrination. Before I went to school (aged 7) the communism was over. Before that I only had friendly Soviet soldiers visiting my creche dressed up as Santa Claus and giving us Christmas presents (the irony of that!) but I would blame that for my current tone deafness when it comes to American excitement ;)
- meric 12y ago
  By bang do you mean "gun"?
  - pcurve 12y ago
    Probably more like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIqeXSYc8nE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIqeXSYc8nE
elchief 12y ago
I made the mistake of studying for and taking the Canadian Border Services exam, where you have to discriminate between fake and real smiles. I got perfect on that section. But now I can't un-see it. Fake smiles. Fake smiles everywhere.
- sumitviii 12y ago
  Interesting. Does this effect wear down?
  - elchief 12y ago
    No
SixSigma 12y ago
When I trained as an actor I learned the curious phenomena : Happiness leads to smiling and smiling leads to happiness.
- rifung 12y ago
  True! On the other hand, being forced to smile leads to unhappiness
  - SixSigma 12y ago
    Anyone that's worked as a waiter / bar-tender knows there's no-one more hated than our beautiful customers. I door find "Tell us why you're passionate about Supply Chain Management" a curious question (my profession). "I'm not, I'm interested in it and good at it" is insufficient. Of course, it is one of those interview situation questions to be ready for. Passion comes in many forms.
janethenew 12y ago
"I am a Libra of Libras" - I could have stopped reading there. "...the interview was over and I was leaving the room. As I shut the door behind me, the committee erupted into laughter" - of course they did. He probably had just told them that alignment of planets made him suitable for the job. Relevant SMBC: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3634#comic http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3634#comic
- walshemj 12y ago
  In japan they ask you for your blood group on job applications
  - janethenew 12y ago
    That's odd. At least, they don't ask about astrological signs. I hope that they don't. "I am a Libra of Libras" sounds like "I'm a crackpot of crackpots" to me.
    - desdiv 12y ago
      The blood type obsession thing is basically their version of astrological signs. Wikipedia has more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_types_in_Japanese_culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_types_in_Japanese_culture
    - phaemon 12y ago
      That's odd. Your comments in this thread sound like "I'm not intelligent enough to identify a metaphor" to me. Strange how those things work, isn't it?
- Udik 12y ago
  I have the suspect that "libra of libras" shouldn't be intended necessarily in its literal sense (of astrological sign), even if it were true. The symbol of the libra is a scale, so the author is just saying, as made clear in the next period, that he usually keeps his moods and opinions very balanced between the positive and the negative, in contrast with the fully optimistic attitude he sees in the Americans.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
kolev 12y ago
We're living in times of fakeness as our modus operandi - fake boobs, fake smiles, fake love skills (Viagra), fake friendliness, fake human rights, fake Eiffel tower (Vegas), fake everything. It's because people today lack class, are abusive materialists and consumerists, and lack any trace of philosophical thinking. And this will not end well!
unclesaamm 12y ago
Seems like HN could do well with an introduction to Arlie Hochschild and "The Managed Heart" http://www.amazon.com/The-Managed-Heart-Commercialization-Feeling/dp/0520272943 http://www.amazon.com/The-Managed-Heart-Commercialization-Fe.... Here's a bit of the blurb from Amazon: "In private life, we try to induce or suppress love, envy, and anger through deep acting or "emotion work," just as we manage our outer expressions of feeling through surface acting. In trying to bridge a gap between what we feel and what we "ought" to feel, we take guidance from "feeling rules" about what is owing to others in a given situation. Based on our private mutual understandings of feeling rules, we make a "gift exchange" of acts of emotion management. We bow to each other not simply from the waist, but from the heart. But what occurs when emotion work, feeling rules, and the gift of exchange are introduced into the public world of work? In search of the answer, Arlie Russell Hochschild closely examines two groups of public-contact workers: flight attendants and bill collectors. The flight attendant’s job is to deliver a service and create further demand for it, to enhance the status of the customer and be "nicer than natural." The bill collector’s job is to collect on the service, and if necessary, to deflate the status of the customer by being "nastier than natural." Between these extremes, roughly one-third of American men and one-half of American women hold jobs that call for substantial emotional labor. In many of these jobs, they are trained to accept feeling rules and techniques of emotion management that serve the company’s commercial purpose."
smilefreak 12y ago
I think that a smile should never be forced, for two reasons. 1. I want to find people who are genuinely passionate about what they do. 2. If people are truly unhappy not being o.k with that, and not faking it may bring attention to a problem they or society faces. This may help highlight, and could lead to solutions. Do not go silent.

156 points by boh 12y ago

I have conducted a few hundred of interviews for software engineers and DBAs in the last three years. I do want to see the passions of the candidates at the professions. It is a big plus in my eyes. On the other hand, I am not impressed by "unequivocal statement". For seniors positions, I don't ask questions with a fixed answer. I prefer to listen to the candidates's opinions, to analyze the pros and cons of an approach, etc. I consider it low intelligence by any "unequivocal statement" for these questions.

analog31 12y ago

In one of my sidelines, I'm a freelance musician. Over the years I've learned how to keep a smile on my face, under pretty much any circumstances. This has proven to be a valuable skill in my day job as well. The smile is more subtle in the workplace -- just a cheerful disposition -- but it's still there. And it helps that I am in fact a generally cheerful person. As for knowing how to show an appropriate level of passion, I would expect this of a senior level person as well, because they will be interacting with colleagues, customers, etc.

A_COMPUTER 12y ago
An artist friend of mine was mass-defriended on facebook after a vitrirolic angerpost about religion. Everybody there knew his opinion on religion I know for a fact many agreed with him, but they didn't want anger and unpleasantness thrown in their faces. This has undoubtedly affected his ability to get work in the future.

lisa_henderson 12y ago

In the USA, unemployment was elevated for several years, and is only now coming down to reasonable levels. More so, if you lack a college degree (and 74% of the USA population lacks a college degree) then your chance of getting a good job is non-existent. In Europe, the unemployment rate is still elevated in most of the 27 countries in the EU. So what could possibly justify this sentence: "Admittedly, the dynamism of Western capitalism depends upon people who work with missionary zeal, who refuse to accept that a job is merely a job." Is it the "the dynamism of Western capitalism" that causes people to pretend to like their job, or is it the scarcity of good jobs, which forces workers to engage in an exaggerated pantomime of missionary zeal?

ekanes 12y ago
> Is it the "the dynamism of Western capitalism" that causes people to pretend to like their job, or is it the scarcity of good jobs, which forces workers to engage in an exaggerated pantomime of missionary zeal? Where in your choices are the people who love their work?
- icebraining 12y ago
  Those aren't being forced to smile, which is the context here.
jes 12y ago
Thanks for an interesting comment. I wonder if it's true that the unemployment rate is coming down to reasonable levels. As I understand it, the unemployment rate that is typically reported excludes people that have given up looking for work. I don't know if this is correct, but let's say that you had an economy where there were no jobs available. Precisely none. Over the long term, the unemployment rate would have to drift down to almost zero, as more and more people realized that there were no jobs available and gave up looking for work. As regards the sentence you ask about, I think I am one of the people that does not look at his work as merely a job. Perhaps it's because I do try to distinguish between my work, my craft, my trade, from the other aspects of who happens to be paying my invoices. Thoughts?
- jonas21 12y ago
  You're right that the official unemployment rate reported by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (U3) excludes "discouraged workers" who have given up looking for work. However, the BLS also publishes a rate that includes discouraged workers (U4), as well as a rate that includes "marginally attached workers" who would like to work, but for whatever reason have not looked for work recently (U5). All 3 of these have returned to normal levels [1]. There's also the U6 rate, which includes workers who are part-time, but would like to work full-time. [2] [1] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10Uy http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10Uy [2] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10UE http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=10UE

im2w1l 12y ago

Just 13% of people feel passionate about their job (worldwide). In the US the figure is 30%. http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/10/unhappy-employees-outnumber-happy-ones-by-two-to-one-worldwide/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/10/unhappy-em... http://www.ryot.org/gallup-poll-70-americans-disengaged-jobs/376177 http://www.ryot.org/gallup-poll-70-americans-disengaged-jobs...

desdiv 12y ago
The per country break down can be found here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engaged-work.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engage... Notably, Syria is at the bottom of the list with 0% of their worker being "actively engaged" in their jobs.

lohengramm 12y ago

I live in Brazil, and I was born in a bad location in the country. My young ages have been a real pain and I learned not to smile. I started working as a programmer even before getting into college, because I needed money to actually pay the college, and so I have lived a very black and white life for ever. Today, I see that having a nice and beautiful past and present that makes it easy to smile everyday is a more valuable trait to get a job than actually having technical skills. I don't personally like the way it works but, hey, it's the real world.

ryan-allen 12y ago
If you keep working hard and are good at your work employers and clients will hopefully see past your demeanour. Some of the most competent people I know come across as grumpy and aloof. They get respect because they know their stuff and care about their work, and that shines through.
sethammons 12y ago
Lots of people go through bad times. No matter how terrible your life may have been, there is likely someone who had it worse off and appears today as happy and smiles. I know it can be hard, but try to not focus on the great advantage others may have due to their roll of the dice and the situation to which they were born. Do the best you can do. Learn what you can. Don't worry about what you can't change. Take joy in small victories. Choose to be happy. Best of luck.

HarryHirsch 12y ago

This Everything2 writeup explains way better than I can what's wrong with passionately loving your job: http://everything2.com/title/F%25C3%25BCr+sechs+Groschen%252C+Fritz%252C+ist%2527s+heute+genug http://everything2.com/title/F%25C3%25BCr+sechs+Groschen%252... There are limits to duty, but there are no limits to passion, that's why your employer wants you to be passionate about him. Especially in startuplandia. Hint, grasshopper, he is not passionate about you, he views you as a resource to be strip-mined. The personnel department is appropiately called "Human Resources" these days. It's just this - why do employees internalize the "passion meme" without any trace of cynicism, and why do customers condone the state of affairs?

pimlottc 12y ago
The restaurant business, particular back-of-house, is particular bad in this respect. Working conditions in most kitchens are horrible - long hours, uncomfortable environments, physical demanding, often dangerous and horribly underpaid with few benefits. But yet, people do it. They know they are getting screwed over, they know they are often destroying their bodies, but they keep on doing it. Because people who want to cook are truly passionate about it. Cooking for someone is an incredible intimate and loving act; one that no amount of corporatism or job function abstraction can dispel. It is an act in which the symbolism and the functionalism are inseparable. When you are serving food, you are literally nourishing people. You are literally providing the substance they need to survive. You are literally crafting, with your own hands, the matter that will become a literal part of another human being. Such a primal act naturally stirs a lot of passion, but likewise, as you say, great opportunities for abuse. Most kitchen employees don't make terribly much more than minimum wage. In expensive cities like San Francisco or New York, it's almost impossible to make a living wage. Even in high-end restaurants.
- taivare 12y ago
  Most of the back-of-house employees in restaurant sector have dependency issues, booze and drugs and management is always aware of it. Go in the back lot where they park and you will special plates on more then one car, in my state the plates are all yellow. If the restaurant industry ever drug tested like the drug store chains do they would easily lose sixty-percent of back of the house staff.

ohazi 12y ago

David Mitchell's customer service rant on QI is particularly on point here. http://youtu.be/_LiDTKEF1ek http://youtu.be/_LiDTKEF1ek

6d0debc071 12y ago

Perhaps the problem is less that it's asked that people love their jobs but more that the question is asked about jobs that it's difficult to see anyone honestly loving. Do I love my job? Sure. And I'd love any job analogous with it as well.... But I can't say that I've loved or even vaguely enjoyed all the jobs I've had, to do so would have made me a schmuck.

mc32 12y ago

I think he brings up a few good points, but he muddles through the whole article and peppers it with irrelevant things --which make me wonder about his rigor. I mean, what does his "astrological sign" have to do with anything? It's absolutely silly. In addition, he comes to this from only an American experience. This is not a symptom you only see in the US. It's saccharine in many places. That said, saccharine or not, it does have a purpose as much as any other line of questioning. In other words, passion, love, whatever, while they may or may not be an indicator of how well someone will execute their job --the main purpose of such questions, in my mind, is to see how well prepared you are for something you can expect. In other words, it's not that they expect a sincere answer or they are trying to torture you and see how you wiggle yourself out, but it's rather to gauge how adept you are at preparation. You know the questions is coming, yet, did you take the preparation to come up with a sensible answer. That is the function of the question. On the other hand, if we were to take these questions literally, yes, then they are quite silly expectations. I have had them at just about every professional job and they are absurd. But we know it's all part of meta-communication. Do I wish it were simpler and didn't recourse to this style of communication, yes, but I think I understand its function. On the other hand, I do enjoy people regarding their job as an act. A role to fulfill. When we understand our jobs to be essentially a role to fulfill, it's liberating in a way. It's no longer you, it's your job personae. Compare service workers in Japan and Europe. Which ones deal with their situation better? I believe the Japanese worker has a better understanding of the situation. They put on their persona and take it from there. To see it any other way is to see an actor performing a dark character and feeling bad for the actor. No, to the actor it makes no difference. It's an act. That said, I've come across very good service workers in Europe as well. They very well understood their function and were happy to play it out.

spcoll 12y ago
> I think she brings up a few good points, but she Although the article might feel like it could have been written by a woman, its author Paul Jaskunas is a man.
- mc32 12y ago
  Thanks for the heads up, fixed.

phabian 12y ago

I think Jim Carrey pointed one obvious thing about laughing in his hillarious way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRyYT62VZdY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRyYT62VZdY

nakedrobot2 12y ago

Here in the Czech Republic, there is no forced smile. It is not a part of the culture, people generally don't do it, and people here generally see americans (especially americans) as fake, superficial, and insincere. I'm a bit on the fence about it. Central Europeans, including Czechs are a rather gloomy bunch :-) especially in the winter. Americans are definitely more cheerful, and it is not fake. Ok, sometimes it is but generally speaking Americans are in fact more cheerful and optimistic. Ok, Czechs have five centuries of being conquered and subjugated of course, so let's not draw too many conclusions. In terms of smiling strangers, well, I'd like a bit more of it than we have here in the Czech Republic (where there is very little)

Swizec 12y ago
Ha, five centuries! We Slovenians have had 12. From 828 AD to 1991 AD. But yes, us Slavs are a gloomy bunch. But only on the outside and only to strangers. Particularly Americans. Whenever I'm in the States I commonly get accused of being emotionless and of having a deadpan face. At the same time, I feel everybody I meet there is a clown and I always make sure to tune down their enthusiasm. If an American says something is super awesome and the best thing ever, it's probably kinda okayish. Anyway, the interesting thing I've found comparing Slavs to Americans is that while Slavs are weary of strangers, they open up much sooner. You can be friends with Americans for months and years, but if you haven't gone to the same kindergarten together, you will never be a true friend. Whereas with Slavs, you could have met at a bar three hours ago, and already you're confessing your deepest darkest secrets to each other and are practically best friends. Source: having lived in the States for some time PS: to be fair, most Europeans I've met both in Europe and in the US share this immediately friends trait. So far none of the Americans I've met have, possibly because of The Big City effect.
- beachstartup 12y ago
  you're european, so you can make instant-friends with europeans quite easily. i'm american, and i can make instant friends with americans. i did it throughout my 20s when traveling here in the US and overseas. in fact i've done it all over 4 continents now. this doesn't seem to be a racial or cultural trait. some people are friendly, some aren't. perhaps the fact that you describe yourself as 'gloomy' is the reason americans do not find it easy to befriend you even after a few drinks.

chestnut-tree 12y ago

Slight digression, but speaking of fake smiles...I'm reminded of a quiz on the BBC website called Spot the Fake Smile. There are 20 short clips of people smiling. Can you spot which ones are fake and which ones are genuine? (The test takes about 10 mins) http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/

beaumartinez 12y ago
I tried to take the test—but the fifth time I pressed "next" it gave me a 404. The key to faking a real smile is in wrinkling the eyes.
- didsomeonesay 12y ago
  > The key to faking a real smile is in wrinkling the eyes. The wrinkling is not a very reliable indicator of fake smiles [1]. A real smile does indeed involve muscles around the eyes, but wrinkling could be caused by the cheek muscles pushing upward too. Some more indicators of a real smile are, IIRC - curling corners of the mouth - corners of the eye pushing inward - short duration - it starts and ends smoothly - symmetry [1] Source: Having recently read "Telling Lies" by Paul Ekman (and that was a HN recommendation too)
  - beaumartinez 12y ago
    Thank you! I'll keep an eye out for those.

araes 12y ago

This article starts to touch on something profound but then mostly skims over an in-depth discussion with reasoning. At its core, this is really about human social response and compelled social behavior. The article could be about "bitchy resting face" or tipping, or any other form of compelled social niceity and it could delve into the same topics. People see certain social cues, and they interpret them based on past experience. People who smile at you, and talk in a certain frequency range, and use certain words, must be nice and want to help you. Anyone who owns a business wants all customers to feel that emotion whenever they associate with your business, and implicit social contracts evolve that basically codify that. It's like "The Game" in some respects. There are certain social cues / responses that most people have internalized so deeply that they're barely aware they respond to them. Most people interpret offhand compliments from a person with apparent detatched interest as intriguing. They interpret questions about them as interest. Easy smiles as confidence. Ect... With the aforementioned tipping, it's a similar mechanism that reinforces certain behavior in wait staff. In a sense, it's a way that those with money can compel behavior from those that don't. An aspect of the symbolic power that wealth effectively represents. Anyhow, lunch arrived, so I'm done, and I'll have to make that very choice in a few moments.

rosstex 12y ago

I will never succumb to forced indifference!

ryan-allen 12y ago
Give it a few years, you wont have to force anything!

DanielBMarkham 12y ago

I am a consultant. I help teams perform better. So I get to travel to a lot of places, work in a lot of organizations, and "start over" with each new gig. A few years ago I thought I would try something different. I decided that no matter how I felt each day, I was going to smile and be as friendly as possible to everybody I met. At times, walking through the hallways of the new job, I felt like an idiot. But I didn't care. I just smiled and tried to be friendly. I know that many times I probably smiled and said hello to the same people twice -- as if I had never seen them that day. I know that at times I must have appeared simple-minded. It was a horrible feeling that first week. Then something strange happened. People started smiling back. I would be working off to the side of a large room, and folks would come over and say hello. People -- I had no idea what their names were or what their jobs were -- would ask me how I was doing. So I kept the experiment going. After a month, I had some really bad personal news and I know I came in to work very downtrodden. At this point, all of that "fake happiness" I had put in the bank came back to me. The anonymous people I had smiled at? They now made an effort to cheer me up. No effort was required on my part. If I came in upset, within a couple of hours of having other people smile at me, I felt like smiling back at everybody else. This went on for a few months. It was one of the most enjoyable jobs I've ever had, and when I left, about a dozen people came over and told me that I had done a great job and they would miss me. (I just did my normal job) Lesson? Smiles are very, very powerful social tools, even if they are forced. They cheer other people up, they cheer you up, and over time they provide some kind of weird social insurance that you can tap into when you're having a bad day. What blew my mind was that the fake part wasn't even important. Simply by trying you got all of the benefits.

fishnchips 12y ago

I remember this director from a Big Company pitching that I join his team after I decided to maybe change jobs. His enthusiasm was insane and eventually I ended up accepting the offer (which was like 20% better than what I got in my old place) and on my 1st day I learned that the guy not only left but went with a bang, too. Having been raised in the Eastern Block I still can't help but wonder how Americans do it.

pacala 12y ago
Hi there, comrade. Perhaps Americans are using the same coping mechanism we were using to deal with the exuberant and completely inane "party line". As outsiders, and engineers on top of it, we just don't pick up the inanity cues that everybody else in the room understands instinctively. Kind of like everyone would sing the International at the beginning of the day, or read an omage to the party once a quarter, but think nothing of it other than being happy to be done with a slightly ridiculous but overall insignificant chore.
- fishnchips 12y ago
  I was born in 1983 so I never experienced much in terms of ideological indoctrination. Before I went to school (aged 7) the communism was over. Before that I only had friendly Soviet soldiers visiting my creche dressed up as Santa Claus and giving us Christmas presents (the irony of that!) but I would blame that for my current tone deafness when it comes to American excitement ;)
meric 12y ago
By bang do you mean "gun"?
- pcurve 12y ago
  Probably more like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIqeXSYc8nE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIqeXSYc8nE

elchief 12y ago

I made the mistake of studying for and taking the Canadian Border Services exam, where you have to discriminate between fake and real smiles. I got perfect on that section. But now I can't un-see it. Fake smiles. Fake smiles everywhere.

sumitviii 12y ago
Interesting. Does this effect wear down?
- elchief 12y ago
  No

SixSigma 12y ago

When I trained as an actor I learned the curious phenomena : Happiness leads to smiling and smiling leads to happiness.

rifung 12y ago
True! On the other hand, being forced to smile leads to unhappiness
- SixSigma 12y ago
  Anyone that's worked as a waiter / bar-tender knows there's no-one more hated than our beautiful customers. I door find "Tell us why you're passionate about Supply Chain Management" a curious question (my profession). "I'm not, I'm interested in it and good at it" is insufficient. Of course, it is one of those interview situation questions to be ready for. Passion comes in many forms.

janethenew 12y ago

"I am a Libra of Libras" - I could have stopped reading there. "...the interview was over and I was leaving the room. As I shut the door behind me, the committee erupted into laughter" - of course they did. He probably had just told them that alignment of planets made him suitable for the job. Relevant SMBC: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3634#comic http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3634#comic

walshemj 12y ago
In japan they ask you for your blood group on job applications
- janethenew 12y ago
  That's odd. At least, they don't ask about astrological signs. I hope that they don't. "I am a Libra of Libras" sounds like "I'm a crackpot of crackpots" to me.
  - desdiv 12y ago
    The blood type obsession thing is basically their version of astrological signs. Wikipedia has more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_types_in_Japanese_culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_types_in_Japanese_culture
  - phaemon 12y ago
    That's odd. Your comments in this thread sound like "I'm not intelligent enough to identify a metaphor" to me. Strange how those things work, isn't it?
Udik 12y ago
I have the suspect that "libra of libras" shouldn't be intended necessarily in its literal sense (of astrological sign), even if it were true. The symbol of the libra is a scale, so the author is just saying, as made clear in the next period, that he usually keeps his moods and opinions very balanced between the positive and the negative, in contrast with the fully optimistic attitude he sees in the Americans.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

kolev 12y ago

We're living in times of fakeness as our modus operandi - fake boobs, fake smiles, fake love skills (Viagra), fake friendliness, fake human rights, fake Eiffel tower (Vegas), fake everything. It's because people today lack class, are abusive materialists and consumerists, and lack any trace of philosophical thinking. And this will not end well!

unclesaamm 12y ago

Seems like HN could do well with an introduction to Arlie Hochschild and "The Managed Heart" http://www.amazon.com/The-Managed-Heart-Commercialization-Feeling/dp/0520272943 http://www.amazon.com/The-Managed-Heart-Commercialization-Fe.... Here's a bit of the blurb from Amazon: "In private life, we try to induce or suppress love, envy, and anger through deep acting or "emotion work," just as we manage our outer expressions of feeling through surface acting. In trying to bridge a gap between what we feel and what we "ought" to feel, we take guidance from "feeling rules" about what is owing to others in a given situation. Based on our private mutual understandings of feeling rules, we make a "gift exchange" of acts of emotion management. We bow to each other not simply from the waist, but from the heart. But what occurs when emotion work, feeling rules, and the gift of exchange are introduced into the public world of work? In search of the answer, Arlie Russell Hochschild closely examines two groups of public-contact workers: flight attendants and bill collectors. The flight attendant’s job is to deliver a service and create further demand for it, to enhance the status of the customer and be "nicer than natural." The bill collector’s job is to collect on the service, and if necessary, to deflate the status of the customer by being "nastier than natural." Between these extremes, roughly one-third of American men and one-half of American women hold jobs that call for substantial emotional labor. In many of these jobs, they are trained to accept feeling rules and techniques of emotion management that serve the company’s commercial purpose."

smilefreak 12y ago

I think that a smile should never be forced, for two reasons. 1. I want to find people who are genuinely passionate about what they do. 2. If people are truly unhappy not being o.k with that, and not faking it may bring attention to a problem they or society faces. This may help highlight, and could lead to solutions. Do not go silent.