6 ms·

It seems like all the positions you mention, at least for developers, are looking to hire junior developers with that salary (though they may not realize it the

by joesmo 12y ago

It seems like all the positions you mention, at least for developers, are looking to hire junior developers with that salary (though they may not realize it themselves). In my limited experience with NYC jobs, the salaries tend to be a bit lower than SF or Silicon Valley, despite the equal to greater cost of living. For senior positions in the Bay Area doing web development and such, I see salaries in the $140-$175 area, with most being around $140-$160k. Actually, these numbers haven't really changed in the past four years or so, which makes the discussions about salary inflation puzzling to me. I'm sure you can get more at Google and such, but these are the typical offers and ranges I've seen at various companies, most of them startups of some sort. NYC should be on par. There might be more companies that don't want to go as high, but there will be plenty of companies that do in both cities. There is no shortage of tech workers, but companies seem to have trouble finding qualified ones anyway. What puzzles me about this, is why a company would refuse to hire someone they really want because of salary, yet settle for someone that they're not that impressed with simply to save $10k or so a year. EDIT: Note that I ignored the equity completely in this case as it's really irrelevant (generally worth nothing).

dannylandau 12y ago
That's a good point you are making. There seems to be a congnitive disconnect when employer says that they are looking for 10x engineers, but then not willing to pay them even 10K extra. In my opinion, and experience with hiring engineers, the 10x'ers are definitely worth the extra salary and a lot more!
- TimPC 12y ago
  It's almost at the point where the combination of 10X, standard 'senior' developer role and salary is a contradiction in terms. There are some highly talented developers doing very senior roles on teams, some founding their own businesses and a large number doing contract work. Very few 10X'ers value themselves at below 2x and almost no companies have structures that allow them to play double an average developer salary for talent.
busterarm 12y ago
SF cost of living crossed over to being higher than NYC five or six years ago. I'm from NYC and remember going to SF in 2007 and things were noticeably more expensive then. That's part of the reason that salaries in SF are a fair bit higher.
- joesmo 12y ago
  Well it really depends if by NYC you refer to the whole of NYC or to Manhattan. I think you're right when comparing to the whole of NYC, but since most jobs are in Manhattan, and Manhattan is still more expensive than SF, then it doesn't make sense that jobs in Manhattan are not paying as well.
  - busterarm 12y ago
    Young people don't really want to live in Manhattan anymore though and neither do young families. Brooklyn is way too hip and Manhattan isn't enough space. Everyday expenses, like food, are still quite a bit cheaper in Manhattan than SF. Even if it's just an issue of tax rates.
    - solve 12y ago
      Confirming that Manhattan is both much cheaper or more expensive... depending on how you live. Manhattan, with their rent control laws, has one of the most bi-modal distributions of cost of living, probably in the world. Doesn't really make sense when people talk about Manhattan as if there's only one way to live there. Tons of people still live the broke artist lifestyle there for very cheap -- although you'll have to be willing to have apartment mates and technically bend a few laws.
      - busterarm 12y ago
        Agreed. I'm profoundly lucky to have the rent controlled apartment in Manhattan that I can live in by myself (moving back there very soon). I just can't do roommates anymore at my age and I can't do that lifestyle much more either. If I didn't have this available I think I'd be looking for work in the midwest or south instead. That lifestyle is just necessity though, not really a "broke artist" thing anymore. New York's bohemian culture (and it was probably the last city to really have one) packed up and moved on a long time ago: In the late 80s/early 90s or after 9/11, depending on who you ask. What we've seen since is really just a poor facsimile.
mattmurdog 12y ago
I've never seen base salaries in the Bay Area at $140-$160k. It's more along the lines of $120k-140k on average for well known companies. The ones you've never heard of barely crack $120K.
- welder 12y ago
  You should try looking at larger companies. I've seen salaries above $200k in the south bay for mid-level programmers.
  - mattmurdog 12y ago
    Most of the well known companies in SF are not necessarily tech companies. They make small apps, games, or websites. Some of the companies include Zynga, Twitter, Salesforce, PG&E, Firefox and many of them do not offer $200K for mid-level programmers. Those are for leads or Managers. Just did a quick search for Twitter for example and it's listed at only $112,760.
- joesmo 12y ago
  Well, now you know they exist and that you can ask for much more. Source: multiple offers in the bay area. I believe the highest salaries are near Mountain View and that part of the valley, where you could possibly get nearer to 200k.
  - mattmurdog 12y ago
    Yes, my comment was for SF and not South Bay where Facebook, Google, etc are.
- Bahamut 12y ago
  $140k is very typical in the Valley from what I have seen. SF salaries seem to be $20k less, for far more hassle (increased rent, poor commute, etc.).

by joesmo 12y ago

dannylandau 12y ago

That's a good point you are making. There seems to be a congnitive disconnect when employer says that they are looking for 10x engineers, but then not willing to pay them even 10K extra. In my opinion, and experience with hiring engineers, the 10x'ers are definitely worth the extra salary and a lot more!

TimPC 12y ago
It's almost at the point where the combination of 10X, standard 'senior' developer role and salary is a contradiction in terms. There are some highly talented developers doing very senior roles on teams, some founding their own businesses and a large number doing contract work. Very few 10X'ers value themselves at below 2x and almost no companies have structures that allow them to play double an average developer salary for talent.

busterarm 12y ago

SF cost of living crossed over to being higher than NYC five or six years ago. I'm from NYC and remember going to SF in 2007 and things were noticeably more expensive then. That's part of the reason that salaries in SF are a fair bit higher.

joesmo 12y ago
Well it really depends if by NYC you refer to the whole of NYC or to Manhattan. I think you're right when comparing to the whole of NYC, but since most jobs are in Manhattan, and Manhattan is still more expensive than SF, then it doesn't make sense that jobs in Manhattan are not paying as well.
- busterarm 12y ago
  Young people don't really want to live in Manhattan anymore though and neither do young families. Brooklyn is way too hip and Manhattan isn't enough space. Everyday expenses, like food, are still quite a bit cheaper in Manhattan than SF. Even if it's just an issue of tax rates.
  - solve 12y ago
    Confirming that Manhattan is both much cheaper or more expensive... depending on how you live. Manhattan, with their rent control laws, has one of the most bi-modal distributions of cost of living, probably in the world. Doesn't really make sense when people talk about Manhattan as if there's only one way to live there. Tons of people still live the broke artist lifestyle there for very cheap -- although you'll have to be willing to have apartment mates and technically bend a few laws.
    - busterarm 12y ago
      Agreed. I'm profoundly lucky to have the rent controlled apartment in Manhattan that I can live in by myself (moving back there very soon). I just can't do roommates anymore at my age and I can't do that lifestyle much more either. If I didn't have this available I think I'd be looking for work in the midwest or south instead. That lifestyle is just necessity though, not really a "broke artist" thing anymore. New York's bohemian culture (and it was probably the last city to really have one) packed up and moved on a long time ago: In the late 80s/early 90s or after 9/11, depending on who you ask. What we've seen since is really just a poor facsimile.

mattmurdog 12y ago

I've never seen base salaries in the Bay Area at $140-$160k. It's more along the lines of $120k-140k on average for well known companies. The ones you've never heard of barely crack $120K.

welder 12y ago
You should try looking at larger companies. I've seen salaries above $200k in the south bay for mid-level programmers.
- mattmurdog 12y ago
  Most of the well known companies in SF are not necessarily tech companies. They make small apps, games, or websites. Some of the companies include Zynga, Twitter, Salesforce, PG&E, Firefox and many of them do not offer $200K for mid-level programmers. Those are for leads or Managers. Just did a quick search for Twitter for example and it's listed at only $112,760.
joesmo 12y ago
Well, now you know they exist and that you can ask for much more. Source: multiple offers in the bay area. I believe the highest salaries are near Mountain View and that part of the valley, where you could possibly get nearer to 200k.
- mattmurdog 12y ago
  Yes, my comment was for SF and not South Bay where Facebook, Google, etc are.
Bahamut 12y ago
$140k is very typical in the Valley from what I have seen. SF salaries seem to be $20k less, for far more hassle (increased rent, poor commute, etc.).