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>>As far as most people are concerned, the premise that all violence is absolutely unnecessary is not a widely held position. This is a straw man that, quite f
by bsbechtel 12y ago
>>As far as most people are concerned, the premise that all violence is absolutely unnecessary is not a widely held position.
This is a straw man that, quite frankly, I'm left scratching my head as to where you got it from. People commit violence when they can get something they want by doing so, and won't face repercussions for the violent act. The places around the world that are widely considered the most violent countries are those that have strong (sometimes authoritarian) central governments, and few rights individuals can exercise to protect themselves on a local level. Examples - China, Russia, Brazil, the Middle East.
The reason this is the case is because the vast majority of citizens in these locations are law-abiding citizens, meaning they won't break the law to own a gun to protect themselves, or take other measures necessary to ensure their own protection, other than depending on the government (either local or national). Then, what happens is government law enforcement fails, because we're human and we all make mistakes - national law enforcement may not be present, local law enforcement may be corrupt or incompetent, or hundreds of other reasons failure could take place. When the law enforcement fails though, regardless of the reason, those law abiding citizens who don't have any means of protecting themselves are now vulnerable to pretty much anyone.
I hope you realize, and can think deeply enough, to understand that the problem of violence is not one that has a binary solution to be solved only via monopoly powers of government. There are literally thousands of creative ideas that can be tried to combat violence...before resorting to coercion by the State. If you read the other posts here, you would understand how those ideas could be explored, and also why they have pretty much died out.
No libertarian or anarcho-liberterian lives in a fantasy world where they think they can just 'wish away' violence. They just understand the answer to violence is not as simple as a vote for 'yes' or 'no' on a ballot box. If that's the world you wish to live, then great. If not, I suggest you open your mind a bit, expand your thinking, and at least consider what the other side has to say.
- hga 12y ago"Then, what happens is government law enforcement fails, because we're human and we all make mistakes - national law enforcement may not be present, local law enforcement may be corrupt or incompetent, or hundreds of other reasons failure could take place." Then there's anarcho-tyranny, where in a riff on the old theme of the upper and lower class uniting against the middle, the ruling class uses withdrawal of police resources against geographically distinct enemies. I've been told this has been done in D.C., which like NYC essentially forbids legal gun ownership (although when I was living Inside the Beltway, I noticed D.C. police and juries were rather sympathetic to genuine self-defense shootings). I've observed this in the U.K. during Blair's regime, where rural areas were stripped of ... 2/3rds of their police, if I remember, and some suburbs that voted "incorrectly" were also said to have suffered, but it was less clear cut. So this goes way beyond "When seconds count, the police are minutes away" and societal/governmental breakdown.
- throwawaycat10 12y agoBrazil doesn't have a "strong (sometimes authoritarian) central government" and individuals certainly do not have "few rights".
- bsbechtel 12y agoMaybe not as much as in the past, but they certainly have far fewer freedoms than Americans enjoy, including the right to own a gun to defend yourself. I was just reading the other day that entrepreneurs are afraid to start businesses here because there are so many taxes and fees that apply to new businesses, that business owners don't know what fees and taxes are legit and what are scams from criminals taking advantage of their naivety. Sounds like a great way for a country to help all of its citizens achieve their full potential. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/brazils-leader-fights-tears-as-report-uncovers-dictatorships-legacy-of-torture/article22022102/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/brazils-leader-fig...
- throwawaycat10 12y agoYour bias is really showing. Brazilians don't have far fewer freedoms than Americans, in fact I'd say some of the freedoms brazilians enjoy are far more important than those in the US. That doesn't mean Brazil is perfect, it's certainly not. It's a country with a lot of problems, but to say it is authoritarian is just straight-up false. This is just a small list, there are many more examples if you bother to look for them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#States_without_capital_punishment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Unite...