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Regarding Russia's foreign propaganda, a Russian-born person (I think he may not wish to be named) described the situation like this: " Many have wondered why

Regarding Russia's foreign propaganda, a Russian-born person (I think he may not wish to be named) described the situation like this: " Many have wondered why the Russian propaganda machine is spewing out a torrent of such preposterous claims that few people take seriously. They know it will not be believed abroad. The purpose is not that it is believed. The purpose of disinformation was is to destroy trust in all media. Create a space where nobody believes in anything. Then, when people brag that they don't believe the Kremlin propaganda, but also they don't believe "the other propaganda" that is published by media in countries where there is a free press, the information war has been won. If you think that Western media (for purposes of translation: let's take for example DW or BBC) is as unreliable as Russia Today, you are not above the information war. You are its casualty. " And seeing the preposterous claims about persecution of ethnic Russians where I live, contra reality of ethnic Russian people I know, and how some people still keep reminding how also the Western TV channels and papers are part of a propaganda machine... he has a strong point.

mc32 12y ago
That is their greatest achievement, to gain equivalency. To a good degree this has worked. There are lots of people who believe major European and NorthAmerican media are no better than Russian media. It has worked for their domestic audience, to great effect, and to a good degree internationally. Just look at Putin's approval ratings.
- bayesianhorse 12y ago
  I don't really believe Putin's approval ratings. In Russia there is no free press and private companies or academic institutes can be controlled at will by the executive branch. So if any institute or private company conducts a poll... well...
  - mc32 12y ago
    I'm afraid I believe the role of the Emp(eror/ress)/Tsar(ina)/Premier/President in Russia is akin to the role of a Father-at-large. So basically, people know he's flawed, they're not innocent, afterall, but they feel protective of him. They take him personally. So an attack on him, by the media, by western institutions, are, indirectly an indictment on them. I think this has foundation in how the country has always had a strongman or strongwoman at the helm who have always projected their power unambiguously and forcefully. It has been this way since the Khievan Rus. People were for practical purposes enslaved serfs till 1917. And then it arguably got worse.
    - cpursley 12y ago
      This is how my wife has explained it (she's Russian born). Regarding Putin's popularity, it's actually true.
  - ptaipale 12y ago
    I don't believe the exact ratings either, but I do not doubt that an honest poll would reveal a very strong support for Putin. There is a deep trauma in Russia about the disorder and weakness of 1990's, and Putin, for good or bad, took Russia out of it.
  - Mikeb85 12y ago
    Believe it. Every Russian I know in real life (in Canada no less) loves Putin. And why wouldn't they? Remember that Bill Clinton, for all his failures, is probably still the most loved US President. Why? Because things were good while he was in charge. Look at this Russian economic data: https://www.quandl.com/c/russia/russia-economy-data https://www.quandl.com/c/russia/russia-economy-data For better or worse, for all Putin's perceived downsides, Russia is better off than it's ever been. Sanctions and all. In fact, most economists are projecting a 5% reduction in GDP due to sanctions. That will put them at 2013 levels of prosperity, which is still way, way above where they were only a decade ago, never mind in 2000.
    - ptaipale 12y ago
      I'm in Finland, <400 km from St. Petersburg, and here the Russian community seems more divided. Some are taking anything from RT/whatever completely seriously, particularly regarding Ukraine, or at least in public they make an appearance to that effect. Others are horrified by seeing the chasm between Russian propaganda and actual reality - for instance regarding the supposed persecution of Russians here, taking away children from families, etc - and also the chasm between their own views and views of their families who are living in Russia under full coverage of government-induced media bombardment about Kiev Nazis etc. And yet another group - quite large in fact - is careful to not say anything at all, if possible. There's one interesting thing, though: the Russian vocabulary has been amended with the term Nazism. In the past, Russian language and any Soviet/Russian source would always speak of fascism (фашизм) and never Nazism (нацизм). This was apparently because Nazi is short for National Socialist, and that was a little bit too close to International Socialist, which was officially good. But now they actually say "Nazi". That is new.
MisterWebz 12y ago
Thank you for letting me realize the reason I distrust most media outlets is because I've been brainwashed by Russian propaganda.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  No, it's probably not the reason. But that you distrust is in the best interests of Russian leadership.

mc32 12y ago

That is their greatest achievement, to gain equivalency. To a good degree this has worked. There are lots of people who believe major European and NorthAmerican media are no better than Russian media. It has worked for their domestic audience, to great effect, and to a good degree internationally. Just look at Putin's approval ratings.

bayesianhorse 12y ago
I don't really believe Putin's approval ratings. In Russia there is no free press and private companies or academic institutes can be controlled at will by the executive branch. So if any institute or private company conducts a poll... well...
- mc32 12y ago
  I'm afraid I believe the role of the Emp(eror/ress)/Tsar(ina)/Premier/President in Russia is akin to the role of a Father-at-large. So basically, people know he's flawed, they're not innocent, afterall, but they feel protective of him. They take him personally. So an attack on him, by the media, by western institutions, are, indirectly an indictment on them. I think this has foundation in how the country has always had a strongman or strongwoman at the helm who have always projected their power unambiguously and forcefully. It has been this way since the Khievan Rus. People were for practical purposes enslaved serfs till 1917. And then it arguably got worse.
  - cpursley 12y ago
    This is how my wife has explained it (she's Russian born). Regarding Putin's popularity, it's actually true.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  I don't believe the exact ratings either, but I do not doubt that an honest poll would reveal a very strong support for Putin. There is a deep trauma in Russia about the disorder and weakness of 1990's, and Putin, for good or bad, took Russia out of it.
- Mikeb85 12y ago
  Believe it. Every Russian I know in real life (in Canada no less) loves Putin. And why wouldn't they? Remember that Bill Clinton, for all his failures, is probably still the most loved US President. Why? Because things were good while he was in charge. Look at this Russian economic data: https://www.quandl.com/c/russia/russia-economy-data https://www.quandl.com/c/russia/russia-economy-data For better or worse, for all Putin's perceived downsides, Russia is better off than it's ever been. Sanctions and all. In fact, most economists are projecting a 5% reduction in GDP due to sanctions. That will put them at 2013 levels of prosperity, which is still way, way above where they were only a decade ago, never mind in 2000.
  - ptaipale 12y ago
    I'm in Finland, <400 km from St. Petersburg, and here the Russian community seems more divided. Some are taking anything from RT/whatever completely seriously, particularly regarding Ukraine, or at least in public they make an appearance to that effect. Others are horrified by seeing the chasm between Russian propaganda and actual reality - for instance regarding the supposed persecution of Russians here, taking away children from families, etc - and also the chasm between their own views and views of their families who are living in Russia under full coverage of government-induced media bombardment about Kiev Nazis etc. And yet another group - quite large in fact - is careful to not say anything at all, if possible. There's one interesting thing, though: the Russian vocabulary has been amended with the term Nazism. In the past, Russian language and any Soviet/Russian source would always speak of fascism (фашизм) and never Nazism (нацизм). This was apparently because Nazi is short for National Socialist, and that was a little bit too close to International Socialist, which was officially good. But now they actually say "Nazi". That is new.

MisterWebz 12y ago

Thank you for letting me realize the reason I distrust most media outlets is because I've been brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

ptaipale 12y ago
No, it's probably not the reason. But that you distrust is in the best interests of Russian leadership.