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Doesn't programming deserve to be the subject of a rigorous, high-level education? It is a rich craft with a growing tradition. We would do well to consider,

by mellis 17y ago

Doesn't programming deserve to be the subject of a rigorous, high-level education? It is a rich craft with a growing tradition. We would do well to consider, as Joel does, how to provide students with appropriate experience for the future practice of their career. That doesn't mean teaching the particular, accidental details of contemporary professional programming, but it does mean taking programming seriously as a subject of education. You can study architecture, design, and engineering in universities - not just sciences and humanities. Similarly, the existence of computer science shouldn't exclude programming from our institutions of higher learning.

xal 17y ago
It's a trade in Germany. I left school after 10th grade and started my apprenticeship in programming. The net effect is that at 29 i've now been a professional programmer for 12 years. More importantly, I also developed all my programming habits during my formative years and therefore developed pretty good habits that are now hard wired and second nature. It gives me a huge edge over other programmers of my age who have been joining the work force over the last few years.
- tel 17y ago
  The huge difference being that in Germany you have functional apprenticeship programs. In the US, which this article is centric to, you're really just going to go to college, have little option besides CS, and then end up somewhere in the chasm of this debate. Trade schools exist, but since they're generally looked down upon you're not going to see a lot of popularity in Programming Trade degrees. Though perhaps the only difference between programming and metal craftsmen is that CS is more obviously popular and valuable these days. P only might equal NP so computers and robots haven't yet taken over the job of crafting programs. This is meant to be a lot less a critique of programming and a lot more a nod toward the intense craft that goes into many of the things you might learn as a "trade". The general skill to build something physical and high quality is so frequently looked down upon these days.
eli 17y ago
I totally get what you're saying, but I'm not actually convinced that it does. There's a certain purity in studying the math and science behind computers instead of studying how to bring your C# program in under deadline.
- gloob 17y ago
  That said, in a world where there are degrees in video game design and journalism, theoretical purity is probably not the defining characteristic of subjects that are taught at university.
- MartinCron 17y ago
  And there's no reason that those who are drawn to the purity of math and science behind computers can't attend traditional CS programs. It would be good if real universities could also (as a different department, whatever) provide relevant instruction and research in the realm of programming. Those who really care about both can always double major.

by mellis 17y ago

xal 17y ago

It's a trade in Germany. I left school after 10th grade and started my apprenticeship in programming. The net effect is that at 29 i've now been a professional programmer for 12 years. More importantly, I also developed all my programming habits during my formative years and therefore developed pretty good habits that are now hard wired and second nature. It gives me a huge edge over other programmers of my age who have been joining the work force over the last few years.

tel 17y ago
The huge difference being that in Germany you have functional apprenticeship programs. In the US, which this article is centric to, you're really just going to go to college, have little option besides CS, and then end up somewhere in the chasm of this debate. Trade schools exist, but since they're generally looked down upon you're not going to see a lot of popularity in Programming Trade degrees. Though perhaps the only difference between programming and metal craftsmen is that CS is more obviously popular and valuable these days. P only might equal NP so computers and robots haven't yet taken over the job of crafting programs. This is meant to be a lot less a critique of programming and a lot more a nod toward the intense craft that goes into many of the things you might learn as a "trade". The general skill to build something physical and high quality is so frequently looked down upon these days.

eli 17y ago

I totally get what you're saying, but I'm not actually convinced that it does. There's a certain purity in studying the math and science behind computers instead of studying how to bring your C# program in under deadline.

gloob 17y ago
That said, in a world where there are degrees in video game design and journalism, theoretical purity is probably not the defining characteristic of subjects that are taught at university.
MartinCron 17y ago
And there's no reason that those who are drawn to the purity of math and science behind computers can't attend traditional CS programs. It would be good if real universities could also (as a different department, whatever) provide relevant instruction and research in the realm of programming. Those who really care about both can always double major.