4 ms·
The two are orthogonal, at least in some aspects. The fundamentals can - technically - be taught in any language (practically, noone's going to try teaching a c
by markdennehy 17y ago
The two are orthogonal, at least in some aspects. The fundamentals can - technically - be taught in any language (practically, noone's going to try teaching a course in BrainFuck). But we try to choose a language that gives them, if not industry skills, a platform from which to reach those skills rapidly. For example, teach them C and an OO language of your choice properly - and they can learn C++, ObjectiveC, Java, Python or any of a dozen others very rapidly indeed compared to someone who dove in, learnt Inferno and then graduated into an industry that never heard of it.
The thing to remember is this - we teach them the fundamentals for a reason, namely to get jobs in industry. At the back of all this academic teaching is a commercial reality that can't be forgotten. But you have to balance that with a long-term view of the student's entire career. We're trying to give them a degree course, not a Sam's book!
- steveklabnik 17y agoIt's true. Just color me bitter about how my college neither taught fundamentals nor prepared anyone for industry.
- markdennehy 17y agoThat's not bitter, that's justifiable anger steve. There's a duty of care involved on the university's part - if they screwed the pooch, that's a pretty major thing.
- steveklabnik 17y agoThis actually lets me responded in a threaded way, rather than your blog, apparently? So my bad, I'll just respond here. Do you feel that your experience or mine is more mainstream? When I read Joel's "The Perils of Java Schools," I felt that it described my school to a tee. I had just assumed that that's how most programs are, given my school's size. Obviously, Ivy-leage schools should be better, but I just kind of assumed that my own experience was average.
- markdennehy 17y agoWordpress.com's threading leaves much to be desired I'm afraid. I can't judge what would be mainstream in US accurately enough to rate your school I'm afraid. I'd see some of the details of the main schools as they write up their courses in journal articles; but my experience is mostly with Irish universities. However, from what several people here and back on the blog and over on reddit are saying, it sounds like the average Irish CS degree is a step or two ahead of at least some US schools. Which I have to say is a major surprise to me, since US schools were (I thought, from speaking to grad students and academics from them) better funded than Irish ones.
- steveklabnik 17y agoI'm not sure if it's a funding issue. It's more of a philosophical one. We've been telling kids for the last few decades that colelge is the path to success, and we've lowered standards so much that everyone goes to college, so that it's actually true. College is quickly becoming a big commodity business, rather than a place to learn.
- mattdawson 17y agoUp voted for introducing me to Brainfuck. Hi. Larious.
- monocasa 17y agoLook up INTERCAL. Brainfuck isn't too hard, just tedious. INTERCAL on the other hand was designed to be as big of a pain in the ass ass possible. People like to use the phrase "fighting with the compiler," but this is a language where the compiler is actually actively out to get you. : )
- moron4hire 17y agoAlways a fan of INTERCAL. Malbolge is a good one, too.
- steveklabnik 17y agoFor more fun, check out the Esolang wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Main_Page http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Main_Page FukYorBrane is a great Branfuck variant.