5 ms·

I really don't grok why I should want to use my smartphone to move up and down my wifi connected blinders. Yet that's all I see when all of this is pictured: gi

by viccuad 12y ago

I really don't grok why I should want to use my smartphone to move up and down my wifi connected blinders. Yet that's all I see when all of this is pictured: gimmicks. I want to see a demo of a room alarm clock: with rising light (in brightness and temperature), birds chirping, room getting warmer, music/radio a while later.. and the same for going to bed.

davidbanham 12y ago
Well yeah, but we can't do any of that stuff until we've figured out how to make the lights turn on and off reliably.
- kalleboo 12y ago
  And some of the first computer peripherals were printers and we still haven't gotten those to work reliably.
  - GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
    We will have self aware AI before we have reliable printers.
    - arethuza 12y ago
      As long as self aware AIs don't evolve from printer software - can you imagine how evil they would be?
      - linker3000 12y ago
        All your base are PC LOAD LETTER
        rhino369 12y ago
        Hackernews: Our Overloard Printers are still using US Letter sized death blades, do they hate math!?!
JonnieCache 12y ago
>I want to see a demo of a room alarm clock: with rising light (in brightness and temperature), birds chirping, room getting warmer, music/radio a while later.. and the same for going to bed. There's one of those in the latest Black Mirror. I won't tell you the stomach-knotting twist in the tale ;)
- solaris999 12y ago
  And in the second episode, but that one's more obviously sinister from the outset
tehwebguy 12y ago
Turning off the lights on the other side of the house after you are already in bed is such a nice feature :)
- alistairSH 12y ago
  If you're in bed, how do you know those lights are on? Also, why wouldn't you turn the light off as you left the room? Most of these "smart home" devices really do seem like a gimmick at this point. Maybe in the future, they'll be well enough debugged and refined to be useful, but for now, I just don't see a benefit in a normal* home. My dad uses Nests, "smart" locks, and remote cameras alarms (off-season) on his beach house - that makes sense, as he's a 5 hour drive from the house. * normal for the US: 1970s 4-bedroom, 1800sqft, 2 level, no basement. I can walk across the house in the time it takes me to get my cell phone off the hall table (where I leave it to charge). The house a single thermostat, so I can't heat/cool zones, and the existing thermostat is programmable by day and time.
  - Yhippa 12y ago
    If the app works it should tell you the state of your devices.
  - fps 12y ago
    I live with my wife and two kids, and I'm the only one that cares about the size of the heat and electric bill. I know the lights are on because they've been left on every night since we've lived there, and if I don't walk around the house every night before bed and shut off the lights, they're still on in the morning. I don't know a single person with kids that doesn't have to do this wonderful nighttime ritual - visit every room in the house and set the electronics to the correct setting. It's very simple and I believe a computer would do it better and faster. I agree - all this automatic light dimming for movies and "scenes" seems like a gimmick. But I'd love to have a button on my phone that switched every light in my house off as if I had flipped a switch.
    - alistairSH 12y ago
ssharp 12y ago
I suppose if you have a lot of remote controlled stuff in your house, the phone can act as the single control for all of it, eliminating the need for so many controls. Those smartphone-connected blinds bother me far less than using your phone as a light switch.
Dirlewanger 12y ago
If a first world problem exists, you can bet your ass there are millienials out there working on a solution that involves a mobile application.
TimothyGee 12y ago
I set up my house such that when I unlock the front door using my code, the downstairs lights come on if it's after sundown. I also have a camera capture the first few minutes of the door changing state. I get alerts if the door is opened outside of normal away hours (8-4 on weekdays). I also have a vacation mode that will control various lights in the house to simulate occupancy. I also set up a nightlight mode that will detect motion after dark and turn lights on and off as you pass through the house. This was all done with off-the-shelf components and minimal Lua scripting. Admittedly not life-changing, but more useful than moving blinds up and down!
- statictype 12y ago
  What components did you use for this?
  - TimothyGee 12y ago
    I used a Schlage Z-wave compatible door lock, a VeraLite smart home controller, and a handful of generic Z-wave devices (sensors, outlets, switches). I also have a Nest thermostat. The package cost me about $200 bucks (not counting the Nest).
gutnor 12y ago
Problem of that, and that of the author is that you are entering the world of programming. You need to be able to enumerate all the possible scenario in your head in order to make a script that looks intelligent. eg: ok I want the light to start when I'm entering and switch them off when I leave. Well unless there is somebody inside (another sensor), unless I just pick the mail (a timer). How do I communicate my intention to come back, so the house does not switch off my netflix download ? If the lock is unlocked, but then shouldn't that generate an alert instead ? That's hopeless for regular user and even for developer that is too much effort for too little benefit. The other approach is Nest, that is trying to guess. So your home would monitor what you do and try to replicate it. I'm not confident - take an application like Word, they are still irritating after decades of intellisense and a somewhat controlled and restricted environment. The only one that could work I think would be an Apple bludgeon approach. Your front door and lights and heater work all together nicely following 1 strict scenario. You either adapt to it or don't buy their product at all ( so if Apple decide that morning means raising the blinder and you would rather let them down in order to get clothed, you better learn to have to change your clothes in the bathroom )
- mooxie 12y ago
  You make a good point about the logic of such problems, and that certainly is a pain-point of these systems. I agree wholeheartedly. However, having used Wink devices and being a minor-league programmer, I can tell you that the crux of the author's issue should not be mistaken to be a misunderstanding of how to 'program' actions on the device. The logic is there - it just often simply does not work correctly due to various issues; some obvious, some not. For instance, geofencing on Wink simply does not work reliably, as mentioned in the article. No matter how you set up your routines, location-based events won't work if the app does not correctly gauge/communicate your location. Also problematic is that your routines are stored on your phone - not on the Wink Hub (basically a 'dumb' radio) - so if you set a timed event but your phone is off or you have no service, the event does not trigger. Everything is further complicated by the fact that your commands are not sent from the app to your device - they are sent from your phone to Wink servers, and then to your device. If their servers are down, experiencing latency, or your home connection is fubar, or your cell service is slow, or your DNS won't allow you to tunnel out and back in with your phone on wireless, or packets are dropped somewhere en route - it is simply not going to work. Finally, there is a ridiculous lack of information in error-handling. Sometimes the hub just does not want to work. With no web-based GUI, inconsistent alert LEDs that simply mean 'something is wrong', and even a reset button that does not actually perform a reset, even the most avid DIY-er is at a loss. Case in point: to truly reset your hub's network settings, Wink recommends that you change your home wifi network's name so that the hub will not be able to reconnect and will eventually reset itself. The inset 'reset' button only power-cycles the device. With problems like the above, understanding the logic behind your comings and goings is a moot point - you can spend hours working with the thing and, as mentioned by the author, suddenly start to appreciate your light switches.

by viccuad 12y ago

davidbanham 12y ago

Well yeah, but we can't do any of that stuff until we've figured out how to make the lights turn on and off reliably.

kalleboo 12y ago
And some of the first computer peripherals were printers and we still haven't gotten those to work reliably.
- GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
  We will have self aware AI before we have reliable printers.
  - arethuza 12y ago
    As long as self aware AIs don't evolve from printer software - can you imagine how evil they would be?
    - linker3000 12y ago
      All your base are PC LOAD LETTER
      - rhino369 12y ago
        Hackernews: Our Overloard Printers are still using US Letter sized death blades, do they hate math!?!

JonnieCache 12y ago

>I want to see a demo of a room alarm clock: with rising light (in brightness and temperature), birds chirping, room getting warmer, music/radio a while later.. and the same for going to bed. There's one of those in the latest Black Mirror. I won't tell you the stomach-knotting twist in the tale ;)

solaris999 12y ago
And in the second episode, but that one's more obviously sinister from the outset

tehwebguy 12y ago

Turning off the lights on the other side of the house after you are already in bed is such a nice feature :)

alistairSH 12y ago
If you're in bed, how do you know those lights are on? Also, why wouldn't you turn the light off as you left the room? Most of these "smart home" devices really do seem like a gimmick at this point. Maybe in the future, they'll be well enough debugged and refined to be useful, but for now, I just don't see a benefit in a normal* home. My dad uses Nests, "smart" locks, and remote cameras alarms (off-season) on his beach house - that makes sense, as he's a 5 hour drive from the house. * normal for the US: 1970s 4-bedroom, 1800sqft, 2 level, no basement. I can walk across the house in the time it takes me to get my cell phone off the hall table (where I leave it to charge). The house a single thermostat, so I can't heat/cool zones, and the existing thermostat is programmable by day and time.
- Yhippa 12y ago
  If the app works it should tell you the state of your devices.
- fps 12y ago
  I live with my wife and two kids, and I'm the only one that cares about the size of the heat and electric bill. I know the lights are on because they've been left on every night since we've lived there, and if I don't walk around the house every night before bed and shut off the lights, they're still on in the morning. I don't know a single person with kids that doesn't have to do this wonderful nighttime ritual - visit every room in the house and set the electronics to the correct setting. It's very simple and I believe a computer would do it better and faster. I agree - all this automatic light dimming for movies and "scenes" seems like a gimmick. But I'd love to have a button on my phone that switched every light in my house off as if I had flipped a switch.
  - alistairSH 12y ago

ssharp 12y ago

I suppose if you have a lot of remote controlled stuff in your house, the phone can act as the single control for all of it, eliminating the need for so many controls. Those smartphone-connected blinds bother me far less than using your phone as a light switch.

Dirlewanger 12y ago

If a first world problem exists, you can bet your ass there are millienials out there working on a solution that involves a mobile application.

TimothyGee 12y ago

I set up my house such that when I unlock the front door using my code, the downstairs lights come on if it's after sundown. I also have a camera capture the first few minutes of the door changing state. I get alerts if the door is opened outside of normal away hours (8-4 on weekdays). I also have a vacation mode that will control various lights in the house to simulate occupancy. I also set up a nightlight mode that will detect motion after dark and turn lights on and off as you pass through the house. This was all done with off-the-shelf components and minimal Lua scripting. Admittedly not life-changing, but more useful than moving blinds up and down!

statictype 12y ago
What components did you use for this?
- TimothyGee 12y ago
  I used a Schlage Z-wave compatible door lock, a VeraLite smart home controller, and a handful of generic Z-wave devices (sensors, outlets, switches). I also have a Nest thermostat. The package cost me about $200 bucks (not counting the Nest).

gutnor 12y ago

Problem of that, and that of the author is that you are entering the world of programming. You need to be able to enumerate all the possible scenario in your head in order to make a script that looks intelligent. eg: ok I want the light to start when I'm entering and switch them off when I leave. Well unless there is somebody inside (another sensor), unless I just pick the mail (a timer). How do I communicate my intention to come back, so the house does not switch off my netflix download ? If the lock is unlocked, but then shouldn't that generate an alert instead ? That's hopeless for regular user and even for developer that is too much effort for too little benefit. The other approach is Nest, that is trying to guess. So your home would monitor what you do and try to replicate it. I'm not confident - take an application like Word, they are still irritating after decades of intellisense and a somewhat controlled and restricted environment. The only one that could work I think would be an Apple bludgeon approach. Your front door and lights and heater work all together nicely following 1 strict scenario. You either adapt to it or don't buy their product at all ( so if Apple decide that morning means raising the blinder and you would rather let them down in order to get clothed, you better learn to have to change your clothes in the bathroom )

mooxie 12y ago
You make a good point about the logic of such problems, and that certainly is a pain-point of these systems. I agree wholeheartedly. However, having used Wink devices and being a minor-league programmer, I can tell you that the crux of the author's issue should not be mistaken to be a misunderstanding of how to 'program' actions on the device. The logic is there - it just often simply does not work correctly due to various issues; some obvious, some not. For instance, geofencing on Wink simply does not work reliably, as mentioned in the article. No matter how you set up your routines, location-based events won't work if the app does not correctly gauge/communicate your location. Also problematic is that your routines are stored on your phone - not on the Wink Hub (basically a 'dumb' radio) - so if you set a timed event but your phone is off or you have no service, the event does not trigger. Everything is further complicated by the fact that your commands are not sent from the app to your device - they are sent from your phone to Wink servers, and then to your device. If their servers are down, experiencing latency, or your home connection is fubar, or your cell service is slow, or your DNS won't allow you to tunnel out and back in with your phone on wireless, or packets are dropped somewhere en route - it is simply not going to work. Finally, there is a ridiculous lack of information in error-handling. Sometimes the hub just does not want to work. With no web-based GUI, inconsistent alert LEDs that simply mean 'something is wrong', and even a reset button that does not actually perform a reset, even the most avid DIY-er is at a loss. Case in point: to truly reset your hub's network settings, Wink recommends that you change your home wifi network's name so that the hub will not be able to reconnect and will eventually reset itself. The inset 'reset' button only power-cycles the device. With problems like the above, understanding the logic behind your comings and goings is a moot point - you can spend hours working with the thing and, as mentioned by the author, suddenly start to appreciate your light switches.