10 ms·

One could bootstrap by using 12V RV appliances, with the exception of big items like the refrigerator, range, and washing/drying machines.

by ph0rque 12y ago

IgorPartola 12y ago
Don't forget AC and furnace. In most places where you can efficiently use solar panels, AC is pretty essential.
- freehunter 12y ago
  It would be nice to re-think the necessity of AC, as well. It's been around for quite a long time and the ineffectiveness are crazy (same thing with whole-house heating). Why heat or cool your house and deal with the insulation problems that come from having doors and windows and walls and exposure to sun or wind on one side? Your house doesn't get hot or cold, it doesn't care. You get hot and cold. Supercomputers run on batteries for an entire day or more in our pockets. Powerful mobile gaming machines can be run from a USB socket. There has to be a way to cool me down in the summer without needing to cool my entire house (and watch as the cold air streams out underneath my door).
  - bkmartin 12y ago
    Easy answer... it's convenient. You show me a people warming/cooling solution as convenient as whole home heating and cooling and then the conversation can begin. It's about creating an environment to live in that is consistent, has nothing to do with a house's feelings.
    - emcrazyone 12y ago
      agree. Also, you need to heat your house here in Michigan if you don't want your water pipes to freeze... or your kid's pet cockatiel to die or suffer.
      - 33W 12y ago
        I can't speak to cockatiels, but the house should be okay ar 40-45degrees, where people would be uncomfortable.
        emcrazyone 12y ago
        I have a bathroom where the water pipes pass through an outside wall. On nights where the temperature goes below 0 degrees F, I open the cabinet door under the sink so heat can get in there. My thermostat is programmed to drop to 60 degrees F at night but because the thermostat is across the house, our downstairs bathroom gets very cold. It's on a slab too. Pipes always freeze if we forget to prop the door open and the temps get down below or in the single digits. I had been thinking of getting one of those wires you put on the pipe to keep it from freezing but it's behind a wall and very hard to get too...
        IgorPartola 12y ago
        You might be able to use a water circulator to keep hot water in the pipes.
    - freehunter 12y ago
      I honestly thought I was talking to a group of engineering-minded people. This comment? This is where dreams go to die. But I guess there's no room for improvement, which is why heated seats were never invented in cars, why hand warmers were never invented, why heated jackets don't exist, why we don't have ice packs, etc. Those things would be crazy and useless.
      - bkmartin 12y ago
        Maybe you are missing the point here. Heated seats in cars do not replace the heating system in the car. Hand warmer, heated jackets are for outside, not inside. Do you want to walk around, inside your house in a heated jacket and hand warmers? It isn't nearly as convenient as having your house be 70 degrees, or whatever you deem comfortable.
    - the8472 12y ago
      For warming you can use far-infrared panels. They heat surfaces (such as your skin) instead of air.
  - IgorPartola 12y ago
    I am guessing you live alone. Try telling a one year old to put on a snowsuit to eat soup in. Or your dog. When the weather is -40 degrees, a sweater won't save you. When it is 110 you will need a trunk with batteries behind you to power your personal AC 24/7. Give it a try and turn off the heat and AC for a season. You might make it, but will it be worth the $100-200/month? Edit: don't forget that AC is much more efficient than heating. With AC you are looking to change the temperature by at most 35 degrees and you are moving heat, so you are getting a multiplier there. With heating, you are heating from freezing or below for most places.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      > Edit: don't forget that AC is much more efficient than heating. With AC you are looking to change the temperature by at most 35 degrees and you are moving heat, so you are getting a multiplier there. With heating, you are heating from freezing or below for most places. Its also incredibly efficient if you're using a geothermal system to pull cold out of the ground vs pushing heat into existing hot air with a compressor.
      - freehunter 12y ago
        Look at that, there is an improvement over forced air. Everyone else said that didn't exist.
      - IgorPartola 12y ago
        It can be, assuming you are in the right location in the world. The problem is cost efficiency: you are talking about tens of thousands of dollars for a system that will only pay for itself in a decade (often times; in some situations this is the perfect answer). Geothermal is no silver bullet unfortunately. There is physical efficiency, and there is economic efficiency.
      - jeremycole 12y ago
        Er, geothermal doesn't "pull cold out of the ground", it pushes heat into it.
  - astrange 12y ago
    Anyone who lives near SF will be used to living in a $2000/month apartment with no A/C, or for that matter the whole nation of Japan. Not sure exactly how much more efficient it is, but it sure builds character. It also helps that the winters are not too bad, and the summers are only kind of too bad.

One could bootstrap by using 12V RV appliances, with the exception of big items like the refrigerator, range, and washing/drying machines.

by ph0rque 12y ago

One could bootstrap by using 12V RV appliances, with the exception of big items like the refrigerator, range, and washing/drying machines.

IgorPartola 12y ago

Don't forget AC and furnace. In most places where you can efficiently use solar panels, AC is pretty essential.

freehunter 12y ago
It would be nice to re-think the necessity of AC, as well. It's been around for quite a long time and the ineffectiveness are crazy (same thing with whole-house heating). Why heat or cool your house and deal with the insulation problems that come from having doors and windows and walls and exposure to sun or wind on one side? Your house doesn't get hot or cold, it doesn't care. You get hot and cold. Supercomputers run on batteries for an entire day or more in our pockets. Powerful mobile gaming machines can be run from a USB socket. There has to be a way to cool me down in the summer without needing to cool my entire house (and watch as the cold air streams out underneath my door).
- bkmartin 12y ago
  Easy answer... it's convenient. You show me a people warming/cooling solution as convenient as whole home heating and cooling and then the conversation can begin. It's about creating an environment to live in that is consistent, has nothing to do with a house's feelings.
  - emcrazyone 12y ago
    agree. Also, you need to heat your house here in Michigan if you don't want your water pipes to freeze... or your kid's pet cockatiel to die or suffer.
    - 33W 12y ago
      I can't speak to cockatiels, but the house should be okay ar 40-45degrees, where people would be uncomfortable.
      - emcrazyone 12y ago
        I have a bathroom where the water pipes pass through an outside wall. On nights where the temperature goes below 0 degrees F, I open the cabinet door under the sink so heat can get in there. My thermostat is programmed to drop to 60 degrees F at night but because the thermostat is across the house, our downstairs bathroom gets very cold. It's on a slab too. Pipes always freeze if we forget to prop the door open and the temps get down below or in the single digits. I had been thinking of getting one of those wires you put on the pipe to keep it from freezing but it's behind a wall and very hard to get too...
        IgorPartola 12y ago
        You might be able to use a water circulator to keep hot water in the pipes.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    I honestly thought I was talking to a group of engineering-minded people. This comment? This is where dreams go to die. But I guess there's no room for improvement, which is why heated seats were never invented in cars, why hand warmers were never invented, why heated jackets don't exist, why we don't have ice packs, etc. Those things would be crazy and useless.
    - bkmartin 12y ago
      Maybe you are missing the point here. Heated seats in cars do not replace the heating system in the car. Hand warmer, heated jackets are for outside, not inside. Do you want to walk around, inside your house in a heated jacket and hand warmers? It isn't nearly as convenient as having your house be 70 degrees, or whatever you deem comfortable.
  - the8472 12y ago
    For warming you can use far-infrared panels. They heat surfaces (such as your skin) instead of air.
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  I am guessing you live alone. Try telling a one year old to put on a snowsuit to eat soup in. Or your dog. When the weather is -40 degrees, a sweater won't save you. When it is 110 you will need a trunk with batteries behind you to power your personal AC 24/7. Give it a try and turn off the heat and AC for a season. You might make it, but will it be worth the $100-200/month? Edit: don't forget that AC is much more efficient than heating. With AC you are looking to change the temperature by at most 35 degrees and you are moving heat, so you are getting a multiplier there. With heating, you are heating from freezing or below for most places.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    > Edit: don't forget that AC is much more efficient than heating. With AC you are looking to change the temperature by at most 35 degrees and you are moving heat, so you are getting a multiplier there. With heating, you are heating from freezing or below for most places. Its also incredibly efficient if you're using a geothermal system to pull cold out of the ground vs pushing heat into existing hot air with a compressor.
    - freehunter 12y ago
      Look at that, there is an improvement over forced air. Everyone else said that didn't exist.
    - IgorPartola 12y ago
      It can be, assuming you are in the right location in the world. The problem is cost efficiency: you are talking about tens of thousands of dollars for a system that will only pay for itself in a decade (often times; in some situations this is the perfect answer). Geothermal is no silver bullet unfortunately. There is physical efficiency, and there is economic efficiency.
    - jeremycole 12y ago
      Er, geothermal doesn't "pull cold out of the ground", it pushes heat into it.
- astrange 12y ago
  Anyone who lives near SF will be used to living in a $2000/month apartment with no A/C, or for that matter the whole nation of Japan. Not sure exactly how much more efficient it is, but it sure builds character. It also helps that the winters are not too bad, and the summers are only kind of too bad.