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This is literally the least interesting response one can make to this issue. Both parties are offering/accepting what the market will bear? Obviously! That's wh

This is literally the least interesting response one can make to this issue. Both parties are offering/accepting what the market will bear? Obviously! That's what makes it the market. You're stating a tautology. The interesting issues at hand are the cultural factors of academia that cause so many highly qualified people to work for such astoundingly little money. Are bright young people being indoctrinated with a sense of personal sacrifice for the cause of 'higher learning', not unlike a cult? Are those self-issued 'high qualifications' not actually as valuable as they are pretended to be? Those are the interesting questions rather than just going "hurr durr supply and demand". Not like the supply-and-demand argument excuses anything, either. The entire history of labor protections is that previous practices that the market would bear were deemed socially unjust and no longer permitted, even if you could still find people desperate enough to agree to them. Saying "you took the job; don't complain" simply isn't valid.

TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
Supply and demand is always political. Prof Robinson has to 'accept' the university's offer because the alternative is starvation and homelessness. The university believes - wrongly, as it happens - that people like Prof Robinson are easy to replace. So it sees no need to treat him any better. If he tries to argue for a fair rate, he's arguing as someone from an inferior position of power and status with 'rational actors' who don't understand the consequences of their actions. In this case the consequences are poor teaching, and - in the medium term - the replacement of an overly greedy university system with something that offers better value for students. I'm sure the admins are patting themselves on the back for putting Prof Robinson in his place. They won't be so happy when everyone - including the student body - has moved elsewhere. >Are bright young people being indoctrinated with a sense of personal sacrifice for the cause of 'higher learning', not unlike a cult? No, bright people are being indoctrinated in business and econ classes with the idea that you should make a fast buck however you can. Social transactions can only be valued financially. Nothing else matters. Those are the real cult victims. As is Prof Robinson, who is one of many talented individual dealing with the consequences of that particular brand of kookiness. This is not rhetoric. These toxic attitudes exist because they've been heavily promoted. They didn't just happen.
- xienze 12y ago
  > The university believes - wrongly, as it happens - that people like Prof Robinson are easy to replace. So it sees no need to treat him any better. Are you using "wrongly" in the sense of "what they're doing is wrong" or "their belief is incorrect"? Because the latter is absolutely not true. There is a near endless supply of freshly-minted PhDs willing the take the author's place.
  - mac01021 12y ago
    I think the point is that, though there are plenty of other PhDs to take his place at low cost, it may be hard to find one who is able to create as much value (for students, and by extention the university) a Prof Robinson.
    - Shivetya 12y ago
      Considering how more interconnected the world is getting your going to see the salaries of jobs which can be done remotely decrease and teaching will be one. However in your argument, with plenty of PhDs available the chances of finding another Prof Robinson should not be impossible. We can always find traits of teachers we like and dismiss others for similarly arbitrary reasons, the issue being how do you make this work for hiring decisions. One person's dream candidate may not even rate for another
- Estragon 12y ago
  > Supply and demand is always political. "Economics is politics by other means."
dantheman 12y ago
Academics are not "desperate." There are a wide variety of jobs open to them that they could purse, they have a lot of options and are intelligent.
- kaitai 12y ago
  Read some of the Chronicle of Higher Ed forums and then come back to reaffirm that statement. For fun, start here: http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,168931.0.html http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,168931.0.html You can also go down the rabbithole of leaving-academia stories starting with http://leavingacademia.blogspot.com/2014/03/what-you-can-do-with-any-postac-job.html http://leavingacademia.blogspot.com/2014/03/what-you-can-do-... . Maybe academics leaving academia are objectively in a good position to transition to other jobs, but they are in general so psychologically wound up in academia that instead they are desperate and disturbed.
  - aaronchall 12y ago
    They're in an incredibly good position. My former boss's boss's boss has a PhD in chemistry. His boss's boss has a PhD in economics. "Tired of bossing around stupid undergrads? Get paid 5 times as much to boss around adults!" I don't even have any reports, and I'm making 5 times what I was making as an adjunct and barely scraping by, and I don't have to deal with undergrads who would rather squeak by than actually learn the material they're being certified in. I have my MBA, but I'm quite pleased to work with people who have their bachelors in philosophy. Disturbed is a good word. Certifiably insane might be a better phrase to use. The real world can actually pay the bills. If you're not being appreciated financially by academia, go where you are. If you still want to deal with undergrads after putting in an honest day's work, there's plenty of demand for adjuncts to teach night classes.

TheOtherHobbes 12y ago

Supply and demand is always political. Prof Robinson has to 'accept' the university's offer because the alternative is starvation and homelessness. The university believes - wrongly, as it happens - that people like Prof Robinson are easy to replace. So it sees no need to treat him any better. If he tries to argue for a fair rate, he's arguing as someone from an inferior position of power and status with 'rational actors' who don't understand the consequences of their actions. In this case the consequences are poor teaching, and - in the medium term - the replacement of an overly greedy university system with something that offers better value for students. I'm sure the admins are patting themselves on the back for putting Prof Robinson in his place. They won't be so happy when everyone - including the student body - has moved elsewhere. >Are bright young people being indoctrinated with a sense of personal sacrifice for the cause of 'higher learning', not unlike a cult? No, bright people are being indoctrinated in business and econ classes with the idea that you should make a fast buck however you can. Social transactions can only be valued financially. Nothing else matters. Those are the real cult victims. As is Prof Robinson, who is one of many talented individual dealing with the consequences of that particular brand of kookiness. This is not rhetoric. These toxic attitudes exist because they've been heavily promoted. They didn't just happen.

xienze 12y ago
> The university believes - wrongly, as it happens - that people like Prof Robinson are easy to replace. So it sees no need to treat him any better. Are you using "wrongly" in the sense of "what they're doing is wrong" or "their belief is incorrect"? Because the latter is absolutely not true. There is a near endless supply of freshly-minted PhDs willing the take the author's place.
- mac01021 12y ago
  I think the point is that, though there are plenty of other PhDs to take his place at low cost, it may be hard to find one who is able to create as much value (for students, and by extention the university) a Prof Robinson.
  - Shivetya 12y ago
    Considering how more interconnected the world is getting your going to see the salaries of jobs which can be done remotely decrease and teaching will be one. However in your argument, with plenty of PhDs available the chances of finding another Prof Robinson should not be impossible. We can always find traits of teachers we like and dismiss others for similarly arbitrary reasons, the issue being how do you make this work for hiring decisions. One person's dream candidate may not even rate for another
Estragon 12y ago
> Supply and demand is always political. "Economics is politics by other means."

dantheman 12y ago

Academics are not "desperate." There are a wide variety of jobs open to them that they could purse, they have a lot of options and are intelligent.

kaitai 12y ago
Read some of the Chronicle of Higher Ed forums and then come back to reaffirm that statement. For fun, start here: http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,168931.0.html http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,168931.0.html You can also go down the rabbithole of leaving-academia stories starting with http://leavingacademia.blogspot.com/2014/03/what-you-can-do-with-any-postac-job.html http://leavingacademia.blogspot.com/2014/03/what-you-can-do-... . Maybe academics leaving academia are objectively in a good position to transition to other jobs, but they are in general so psychologically wound up in academia that instead they are desperate and disturbed.
- aaronchall 12y ago
  They're in an incredibly good position. My former boss's boss's boss has a PhD in chemistry. His boss's boss has a PhD in economics. "Tired of bossing around stupid undergrads? Get paid 5 times as much to boss around adults!" I don't even have any reports, and I'm making 5 times what I was making as an adjunct and barely scraping by, and I don't have to deal with undergrads who would rather squeak by than actually learn the material they're being certified in. I have my MBA, but I'm quite pleased to work with people who have their bachelors in philosophy. Disturbed is a good word. Certifiably insane might be a better phrase to use. The real world can actually pay the bills. If you're not being appreciated financially by academia, go where you are. If you still want to deal with undergrads after putting in an honest day's work, there's plenty of demand for adjuncts to teach night classes.