4 ms·

Exactly. Ironically, it seems many academics don't do the research to see what happens with a career in academia. The market will pay for jobs at their replace

Exactly. Ironically, it seems many academics don't do the research to see what happens with a career in academia. The market will pay for jobs at their replacement cost. If a stream of aspiring professors are willing to work for near poverty wages, with the occasional complaint, that is what they'll get. Why would the administration pay more? (If a gas station starts charging $10/gallon, you get your supplies from another. Even if gas provides tremendous value to you, and you internally value it at $100/gal. Only if fuel isn't available elsewhere do you pay the higher cost.)

vlasev 12y ago
I think it's because the academics start off as trusting students. At my school the professors kept telling us how wonderful it is to have a math degree and that you'll do this and that no problem. They push you to go to graduate school because you show promise. Only to be paid very little and have a difficult future. Of course you don't do your due diligence at first because you trust your profs. And by the time you get to graduate school there is a sort of momentum that keeps you in.
- ohyes 12y ago
  As Someone who was an undergrad in philosphy; none of my professors were pushing for grad school, they know the market is flooded.
  - PaulHoule 12y ago
    Physics is a field that has been irresponsible about this for years, at least since the first PhD unemployment crisis of 1969. Most other fields practice "birth control", and professors in many fields are shocked when they see that fewer than 5% of physics PhD(s) stay in the field. This guy unfortunately has a bad bargaining position because (i) there are a lot of people to replace him, and (ii) most of them come from the third world so the opportunity to live in Canada and get paid $34,000 in loonies looks great to them. (The other area of academia that is this bad is biotech, where you can spend as long as you like in postdocs, but getting to a tenured position is unlikely)
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  I realized just as I started my last semester of a bachelor's degree that I was currently writing bullshit papers that I had to pay the professor to read and critique. If I followed my academic advisor's recommendations, I would eventually be paid to read and critique bullshit papers from people who would be just like I had been then, and possibly continue writing bullshit papers for an audience numbering, at most, in the hundreds, who all trade fictional reputation points to each other instead of the money they don't have. All the while, other people would be reaping immense profits from their work and consuming the greatest part of it before possibly giving a portion to the ones most directly responsible. At this point, having just completed my Cognitive Science minor, I determined that the entire system of academia used avoidance of cognitive dissonance as one of its foundation stones. People become academics because they have already invested a colossal amount of effort into becoming an academic, and endured painful hardship in doing so. To turn their backs upon it would be to admit to themselves that they wasted a good portion of the best years of their lives on a fool's errand. Most people can't bring themselves to do that without the help of some major psychedelics. Whenever I feel a twinge of regret, I select a random university, check their job postings and pay scales, and discover that they pay half what I currently earn for jobs with quadruple the responsibilities and equal or greater amounts of administrative hoop-jumping. Teaching jobs pay peanuts because too many people are willing to do the work for peanuts. Do not trust your professors. They have a vested interest in creating clueless underlings who can take their place as they claw their way upwards. If it is your passion to teach, use the extra money and leisure time you will have with a non-academic job to create a series of videos, and post them on the network.
- theorique 12y ago
  I agree 100% - the people in PhD programs have a long track record of being the best undergrads, the best MS students. They are good, obedient students who trust their professors, even when those professors may have obtained their tenure-track jobs in the 1960s and 70s and have no understanding of (1) the opportunities outside academia and (2) how the academic job market really is. A lot of them have some vague idea of "oh well, the good grad students will always get academic jobs". The answer is, "maybe, after 2-3 postdocs, at age 38, if they are lucky".
carrotleads 12y ago
Anytime you love your work, your pay is surely going to suffer... They key may be to fake hatred for your work.

vlasev 12y ago

I think it's because the academics start off as trusting students. At my school the professors kept telling us how wonderful it is to have a math degree and that you'll do this and that no problem. They push you to go to graduate school because you show promise. Only to be paid very little and have a difficult future. Of course you don't do your due diligence at first because you trust your profs. And by the time you get to graduate school there is a sort of momentum that keeps you in.

ohyes 12y ago
As Someone who was an undergrad in philosphy; none of my professors were pushing for grad school, they know the market is flooded.
- PaulHoule 12y ago
  Physics is a field that has been irresponsible about this for years, at least since the first PhD unemployment crisis of 1969. Most other fields practice "birth control", and professors in many fields are shocked when they see that fewer than 5% of physics PhD(s) stay in the field. This guy unfortunately has a bad bargaining position because (i) there are a lot of people to replace him, and (ii) most of them come from the third world so the opportunity to live in Canada and get paid $34,000 in loonies looks great to them. (The other area of academia that is this bad is biotech, where you can spend as long as you like in postdocs, but getting to a tenured position is unlikely)
logfromblammo 12y ago
I realized just as I started my last semester of a bachelor's degree that I was currently writing bullshit papers that I had to pay the professor to read and critique. If I followed my academic advisor's recommendations, I would eventually be paid to read and critique bullshit papers from people who would be just like I had been then, and possibly continue writing bullshit papers for an audience numbering, at most, in the hundreds, who all trade fictional reputation points to each other instead of the money they don't have. All the while, other people would be reaping immense profits from their work and consuming the greatest part of it before possibly giving a portion to the ones most directly responsible. At this point, having just completed my Cognitive Science minor, I determined that the entire system of academia used avoidance of cognitive dissonance as one of its foundation stones. People become academics because they have already invested a colossal amount of effort into becoming an academic, and endured painful hardship in doing so. To turn their backs upon it would be to admit to themselves that they wasted a good portion of the best years of their lives on a fool's errand. Most people can't bring themselves to do that without the help of some major psychedelics. Whenever I feel a twinge of regret, I select a random university, check their job postings and pay scales, and discover that they pay half what I currently earn for jobs with quadruple the responsibilities and equal or greater amounts of administrative hoop-jumping. Teaching jobs pay peanuts because too many people are willing to do the work for peanuts. Do not trust your professors. They have a vested interest in creating clueless underlings who can take their place as they claw their way upwards. If it is your passion to teach, use the extra money and leisure time you will have with a non-academic job to create a series of videos, and post them on the network.
theorique 12y ago
I agree 100% - the people in PhD programs have a long track record of being the best undergrads, the best MS students. They are good, obedient students who trust their professors, even when those professors may have obtained their tenure-track jobs in the 1960s and 70s and have no understanding of (1) the opportunities outside academia and (2) how the academic job market really is. A lot of them have some vague idea of "oh well, the good grad students will always get academic jobs". The answer is, "maybe, after 2-3 postdocs, at age 38, if they are lucky".

carrotleads 12y ago

Anytime you love your work, your pay is surely going to suffer... They key may be to fake hatred for your work.