6 ms·

You are missing the point. Student not allowed to make their homeworks public and this is for a very good reason. It helps other students looking to plagiarize,

by wsxcde 12y ago

You are missing the point. Student not allowed to make their homeworks public and this is for a very good reason. It helps other students looking to plagiarize, and students have a responsibility to make a reasonable effort to prevent this. And while I can't comment on what these particular students were told, I can guarantee you that all the instructors I know make it a point to tell their students that they are not allowed to put their homeworks up online. Another issue to consider is that the homeoworks are not student property, they largely belong to the instructor. A lot of effort goes into producing interesting and educational homeworks, and it's all lost if students can just google the answers. If you disagree with the idea that homeworks are instructor property, ask yourself if it would be okay if an instructor at Princeton just reused (without permission) the homeworks from a course at Harvard.

shawn-furyan 12y ago
madaxe_again said that the University gave him a zero for plagiarizing a website when he was the one that controlled that website. Whether or not it is legitimate to post solutions online, this is not what madaxe claims to have been penalized for. In my opinion, arbitrarily shoehorning a perceived infraction into a preexisting rule that it doesn't fit so that you can punish behavior that you hadn't thought to disallow before the fact is an abuse of university policies. If madaxe is recounting the event accurately, then I think that the university is more in the wrong. University policies are hard enough to follow in situations like this when the university sticks to the letter of the policy. Plus, universities can always go back to update policies as they see new behaviors that they would like to disallow. But if the university uses whatever policies that they do have on the books to punish arbitrary behaviors that they don't disallow, then it puts the student in the situation of having to predict how this practice will impact them in the future. This is essentially impossible, and quite defeats the entire purpose of having policies written down in the first place. If this practice is common, then the policies are merely legitimacy theater, and are in fact illegitimate. The situation is further confounded by the power dynamics at play. Tanking a students GPA is a pretty tremendous bludgeon, and outside of retaining a lawyer, a bludgeon against which students have little defense. This power discrepancy demands discretion on the part of the university. There is a level of injustice in the act of a university wielding this power against a student without a grounding in legitimate policy.
- wsxcde 12y ago
  Plagiarism laws aren't just about whether you copied from someone else. A lot of times, certainly in all the universities I've been part of, they will penalize you if you did not take reasonable precautions to ensure that others did not copy from you. There's nothing unreasonable about this. As far as the rest of your comment goes, maybe there are some cases when students are unfairly penalized for hard-to-follow policies. But the instance here seems pretty clear cut. I also think shady behavior from students more often than not goes unpunished, so your fears of a power-drunk university arbitrary destroying students' GPA just for the heck of it, seem unjustified.
- madaxe_again 12y ago
  It wasn't prohibited - this was 2002, and they were only just getting up to speed with this internet thing. It wasn't exactly work that could have easily been plagiarised - 20,000 word research paper on Minkowski, Kaluza-Klein, etc. I had no revenge, I just ended up with a worse than hoped for degree, a deeper distrust of authority, and utter contempt for university "education", which would be better described as "conformation".
  - wsxcde 12y ago
    Do you really think that what you did was acceptable? It's equivalent to putting up your essay on a public notice board. Do you think the latter would've been acceptable behavior? Maybe the punishment was a little harsh, but I think it'd be hard to argue you weren't in the wrong. > a deeper distrust of authority, and utter contempt for university "education", which would be better described as "conformation" Based on what you've said so far, to me you sound immature and are rationalizing your immaturity by blaming "the system."
    - madaxe_again 12y ago
      I think it was perfectly acceptable, yes. I wrote a paper on a topic of my choice, I handed it in, and I then posted it to my site, as a blog post. There was nothing that prohibited this, and I had posted data (astronomical observations & images) and assignments to my site for years previous to this incident. Frankly, I would suggest that your thinking is extremely immature, if your first course of action is to call someone else immature, and to respect all authority unquestioningly - shows a lack of development of thought, and an absence of critical thinking.

by wsxcde 12y ago

shawn-furyan 12y ago

madaxe_again said that the University gave him a zero for plagiarizing a website when he was the one that controlled that website. Whether or not it is legitimate to post solutions online, this is not what madaxe claims to have been penalized for. In my opinion, arbitrarily shoehorning a perceived infraction into a preexisting rule that it doesn't fit so that you can punish behavior that you hadn't thought to disallow before the fact is an abuse of university policies. If madaxe is recounting the event accurately, then I think that the university is more in the wrong. University policies are hard enough to follow in situations like this when the university sticks to the letter of the policy. Plus, universities can always go back to update policies as they see new behaviors that they would like to disallow. But if the university uses whatever policies that they do have on the books to punish arbitrary behaviors that they don't disallow, then it puts the student in the situation of having to predict how this practice will impact them in the future. This is essentially impossible, and quite defeats the entire purpose of having policies written down in the first place. If this practice is common, then the policies are merely legitimacy theater, and are in fact illegitimate. The situation is further confounded by the power dynamics at play. Tanking a students GPA is a pretty tremendous bludgeon, and outside of retaining a lawyer, a bludgeon against which students have little defense. This power discrepancy demands discretion on the part of the university. There is a level of injustice in the act of a university wielding this power against a student without a grounding in legitimate policy.

wsxcde 12y ago
Plagiarism laws aren't just about whether you copied from someone else. A lot of times, certainly in all the universities I've been part of, they will penalize you if you did not take reasonable precautions to ensure that others did not copy from you. There's nothing unreasonable about this. As far as the rest of your comment goes, maybe there are some cases when students are unfairly penalized for hard-to-follow policies. But the instance here seems pretty clear cut. I also think shady behavior from students more often than not goes unpunished, so your fears of a power-drunk university arbitrary destroying students' GPA just for the heck of it, seem unjustified.
madaxe_again 12y ago
It wasn't prohibited - this was 2002, and they were only just getting up to speed with this internet thing. It wasn't exactly work that could have easily been plagiarised - 20,000 word research paper on Minkowski, Kaluza-Klein, etc. I had no revenge, I just ended up with a worse than hoped for degree, a deeper distrust of authority, and utter contempt for university "education", which would be better described as "conformation".
- wsxcde 12y ago
  Do you really think that what you did was acceptable? It's equivalent to putting up your essay on a public notice board. Do you think the latter would've been acceptable behavior? Maybe the punishment was a little harsh, but I think it'd be hard to argue you weren't in the wrong. > a deeper distrust of authority, and utter contempt for university "education", which would be better described as "conformation" Based on what you've said so far, to me you sound immature and are rationalizing your immaturity by blaming "the system."
  - madaxe_again 12y ago
    I think it was perfectly acceptable, yes. I wrote a paper on a topic of my choice, I handed it in, and I then posted it to my site, as a blog post. There was nothing that prohibited this, and I had posted data (astronomical observations & images) and assignments to my site for years previous to this incident. Frankly, I would suggest that your thinking is extremely immature, if your first course of action is to call someone else immature, and to respect all authority unquestioningly - shows a lack of development of thought, and an absence of critical thinking.