17 ms·

Windows is a proprietary ecosystem where choices are made for the benefit of microsoft's shareholders and nobody else. It is full of compromise. From DRM to h

Windows is a proprietary ecosystem where choices are made for the benefit of microsoft's shareholders and nobody else. It is full of compromise. From DRM to hamstrung "student" versions, Windows is not your friend. Microsoft's business practices, specifically the way they market windows on oem machines, are also downright deceptive. I never use windows at home but, because I buy laptops, I actually own many windows licenses. Those "sales" are part of Microsoft's bottom line and are pitched to shareholders as if I am actually using microsoft products. I have never met anyone who truly likes windows. They tolerate it. They are used to it. But they never say "Yes, I am happy with this new version. The upgrade sure made my life easier!" I'd rather have my wisdom teeth re-installed and re-pulled than be part of another office transitioning from one version of windows to another. I gave up on windows when, after buying a little netbook, I decided to give it a chance. I plugged in an MS-brand optical mouse and was told that windows needed to connect to the internet to download the driver to run the mouse. That was windows's last breath on any of my personal machines. And death to docx.

robin_reala 12y ago
It’s easy enough to buy laptops without Windows licences https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ https://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m3800-workstation/pd https://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m3800-workstati...
ux-app 12y ago
> I have never met anyone who truly likes windows. I like windows.
- 3D4y0 12y ago
  I'm not sure you qualify, except (of course) he has met you...
  - hyperliner 12y ago
    He should have started with "Nice to meet you."
    - sandworm 12y ago
      I'm old enough to believe that meeting on an online forum doesn't qualify 'met'. "I met the President on twitter" doesn't count.
72deluxe 12y ago
To offer an alternative: I used to have the same "that upgrade DIDN'T make my life easier" with every new version of Fedora that I installed, until GNOME3, which completely removed any trace of productivity that I had. I then ditched desktop Linux. I don't think people enjoy new versions of anything (look at the backlash to Lion since Snow Leopard), there are still vocal complaints about Yosemite in OSX land. My parents like Windows. My brother likes Windows. I use it daily and find it tolerable, like you. But I think it would be naive to say that nobody likes Windows, don't you? Try giving any of my family or my wife my MacBook and see how angry they get in a short space of time.
- Jach 12y ago
  If you didn't go "man gnome3 sucks, I'm reverting back to gnome2 (or never upgrading gnome in the first place), or moving to the mate fork, or using the comparable xfce until mate stabilizes" like the rest of us who can't stand gnome3, maybe you were never meant to have Linux on the desktop for long. I mean, GP's first complaint, my emphasis: >Windows is a proprietary ecosystem where choices are made for the benefit of microsoft's shareholders and nobody else. All software distributors make choices for someone's benefit, maybe sometimes even for the users', but the difference with non proprietary ecosystems, like Linux, is that users can make their own choices if they don't like the ones made for them. Sometimes this requires coordinated effort (like forking gnome2) that can sometimes be so effortful it might as well be as out of reach as changing choices in the closed ecosystem, but many other times it's as simple as installing a different desktop environment through your distro's package manager. What if I don't like the new look of Windows or OS X? I can choose not to upgrade the entire platform, but that's it, unlike in Linux land where I can upgrade piecemeal. It's even worse if I don't like a webapp's new look -- I can't even use the old version. I can of course stop using it. Great choice that, when it's the only alternative to 'tolerate'. I agree with you that it's silly to say no one genuinely in a non-fanboy way likes Windows. (I live with such a person.) Personally I find Windows intolerable for anything but playing games on Steam and NoMachining into a Linux workstation. If my day-job was programming C# applications, I'd probably tolerate Visual Studio too. If that was my hobby and all my time was with Windows, and I forgot all I know of the Linux world, and like my housemate I installed various 3rd-party tools to change the boneheaded choices Microsoft occasionally makes (this does make my last paragraph hyperbole) then I might even like Windows as a whole.
aceperry 12y ago
"I have never met anyone who truly likes windows" Interestingly, I've seen a small group of Windows fanbois arise within the last couple of years. Very much like the Apple fanbois; just as irrational and quick to take offense at any criticism of MS and Windows. But I agree with you that most people I know also tolerate windows. Some are even happy with it because they can do things with a computer that has windows. That was until Windows 8 came out. I was surprised by the amount of hate windows 8 received, and it was well deserved IMHO. But then I was also surprised by the few people who didn't hate Windows 8, some even liked it. The fanbois.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  I shelled out money for a 8.1 license.
- scholia 12y ago
  It's not fanbois, it's actual real-life users who love it. (Not all of them, but a high proportion, in my experience.) Windows 8.1 is terrific on tablets and devices with touch screens. My wife loves it. I think most if not all the hate came from stuck-in-the-mud XP users, and from Windows 7 users with non-touch screens. Which is fair enough. Those are, of course, the vast majority of Windows users, so -- even though most of them have never used it seriously -- they drown out the real Windows 8/8.1 users.
  - aceperry 12y ago
    In my experience, most users don't have surface or windows tablets. And they came from XP or 7. As far as I can tell, they use windows 8 as seriously as when they used xp and 7. You can dismiss the vast majority of people who have that experience, but that would be ignoring the reality for most people. Fortunately for Microsoft, MS has decided to listen to the huge amount of complaints and get rid of the problematic interface. I've always wondered what the win8/8.1 supporters would have MS do about the situation. Tell the vast majority of "unserious" users to suck it up, shut up, and use Win8? No change is necessary, you just have to get serious about using it? I'm asking because I don't understand the point of view of win8 supporters. BTW, I really do think that there are MS fanbois out there. Not trying to be insulting or anything, just something that seems to be a new trend. Peace.
cust_support 12y ago
Sorry to nitpick, but docx is a file format, and not even a particularly original idea for a file format (ODF does it without riling RMS). In other words, you might also say: "[Oracle] is a proprietary ecosystem where choices are made for the benefit of [Oracle]'s shareholders and nobody else." but no one would say "And death to jar."
justin66 12y ago
> I have never met anyone who truly likes windows. They tolerate it. They are used to it. But they never say "Yes, I am happy with this new version. The upgrade sure made my life easier!" Plenty of people felt that way about the Vista to Windows 7 upgrade. (fewer felt that way about the 7 to 8 transition)
bentcorner 12y ago
> And death to docx. I wouldn't mind some elaboration on this point; I would think it's a step up from .doc at the least.
- sandworm 12y ago
  Docx doesn't play nice. At a time when they could have contributed to open standards such as odt, and as projects like Openoffice were getting a handle on the doc format, Microsoft rolled out DocX to stir the pot. DocX has some silly compression built in. Microsoft pitched this to some large customers on the basis of all the disk space it would save. How large are text documents? Are they really in need of compression? Only he most massive of corporations see any appreciable reduction in storage needs over the old doc format.
  - yuhong 12y ago
    ODF also uses compression.

robin_reala 12y ago

It’s easy enough to buy laptops without Windows licences https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ https://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m3800-workstation/pd https://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m3800-workstati...

ux-app 12y ago

> I have never met anyone who truly likes windows. I like windows.

3D4y0 12y ago
I'm not sure you qualify, except (of course) he has met you...
- hyperliner 12y ago
  He should have started with "Nice to meet you."
  - sandworm 12y ago
    I'm old enough to believe that meeting on an online forum doesn't qualify 'met'. "I met the President on twitter" doesn't count.

72deluxe 12y ago

To offer an alternative: I used to have the same "that upgrade DIDN'T make my life easier" with every new version of Fedora that I installed, until GNOME3, which completely removed any trace of productivity that I had. I then ditched desktop Linux. I don't think people enjoy new versions of anything (look at the backlash to Lion since Snow Leopard), there are still vocal complaints about Yosemite in OSX land. My parents like Windows. My brother likes Windows. I use it daily and find it tolerable, like you. But I think it would be naive to say that nobody likes Windows, don't you? Try giving any of my family or my wife my MacBook and see how angry they get in a short space of time.

Jach 12y ago
If you didn't go "man gnome3 sucks, I'm reverting back to gnome2 (or never upgrading gnome in the first place), or moving to the mate fork, or using the comparable xfce until mate stabilizes" like the rest of us who can't stand gnome3, maybe you were never meant to have Linux on the desktop for long. I mean, GP's first complaint, my emphasis: >Windows is a proprietary ecosystem where choices are made for the benefit of microsoft's shareholders and nobody else. All software distributors make choices for someone's benefit, maybe sometimes even for the users', but the difference with non proprietary ecosystems, like Linux, is that users can make their own choices if they don't like the ones made for them. Sometimes this requires coordinated effort (like forking gnome2) that can sometimes be so effortful it might as well be as out of reach as changing choices in the closed ecosystem, but many other times it's as simple as installing a different desktop environment through your distro's package manager. What if I don't like the new look of Windows or OS X? I can choose not to upgrade the entire platform, but that's it, unlike in Linux land where I can upgrade piecemeal. It's even worse if I don't like a webapp's new look -- I can't even use the old version. I can of course stop using it. Great choice that, when it's the only alternative to 'tolerate'. I agree with you that it's silly to say no one genuinely in a non-fanboy way likes Windows. (I live with such a person.) Personally I find Windows intolerable for anything but playing games on Steam and NoMachining into a Linux workstation. If my day-job was programming C# applications, I'd probably tolerate Visual Studio too. If that was my hobby and all my time was with Windows, and I forgot all I know of the Linux world, and like my housemate I installed various 3rd-party tools to change the boneheaded choices Microsoft occasionally makes (this does make my last paragraph hyperbole) then I might even like Windows as a whole.

aceperry 12y ago

"I have never met anyone who truly likes windows" Interestingly, I've seen a small group of Windows fanbois arise within the last couple of years. Very much like the Apple fanbois; just as irrational and quick to take offense at any criticism of MS and Windows. But I agree with you that most people I know also tolerate windows. Some are even happy with it because they can do things with a computer that has windows. That was until Windows 8 came out. I was surprised by the amount of hate windows 8 received, and it was well deserved IMHO. But then I was also surprised by the few people who didn't hate Windows 8, some even liked it. The fanbois.

pjmlp 12y ago
I shelled out money for a 8.1 license.
scholia 12y ago
It's not fanbois, it's actual real-life users who love it. (Not all of them, but a high proportion, in my experience.) Windows 8.1 is terrific on tablets and devices with touch screens. My wife loves it. I think most if not all the hate came from stuck-in-the-mud XP users, and from Windows 7 users with non-touch screens. Which is fair enough. Those are, of course, the vast majority of Windows users, so -- even though most of them have never used it seriously -- they drown out the real Windows 8/8.1 users.
- aceperry 12y ago
  In my experience, most users don't have surface or windows tablets. And they came from XP or 7. As far as I can tell, they use windows 8 as seriously as when they used xp and 7. You can dismiss the vast majority of people who have that experience, but that would be ignoring the reality for most people. Fortunately for Microsoft, MS has decided to listen to the huge amount of complaints and get rid of the problematic interface. I've always wondered what the win8/8.1 supporters would have MS do about the situation. Tell the vast majority of "unserious" users to suck it up, shut up, and use Win8? No change is necessary, you just have to get serious about using it? I'm asking because I don't understand the point of view of win8 supporters. BTW, I really do think that there are MS fanbois out there. Not trying to be insulting or anything, just something that seems to be a new trend. Peace.

cust_support 12y ago

Sorry to nitpick, but docx is a file format, and not even a particularly original idea for a file format (ODF does it without riling RMS). In other words, you might also say: "[Oracle] is a proprietary ecosystem where choices are made for the benefit of [Oracle]'s shareholders and nobody else." but no one would say "And death to jar."

justin66 12y ago

> I have never met anyone who truly likes windows. They tolerate it. They are used to it. But they never say "Yes, I am happy with this new version. The upgrade sure made my life easier!" Plenty of people felt that way about the Vista to Windows 7 upgrade. (fewer felt that way about the 7 to 8 transition)

bentcorner 12y ago

> And death to docx. I wouldn't mind some elaboration on this point; I would think it's a step up from .doc at the least.

sandworm 12y ago
Docx doesn't play nice. At a time when they could have contributed to open standards such as odt, and as projects like Openoffice were getting a handle on the doc format, Microsoft rolled out DocX to stir the pot. DocX has some silly compression built in. Microsoft pitched this to some large customers on the basis of all the disk space it would save. How large are text documents? Are they really in need of compression? Only he most massive of corporations see any appreciable reduction in storage needs over the old doc format.
- yuhong 12y ago
  ODF also uses compression.