4 ms·

> Throw kids into the mix and its no big surprise. In my experience kids can have quite the opposite effect - I got a lot more ambitious when the first one arr

by fhd2 12y ago

> Throw kids into the mix and its no big surprise. In my experience kids can have quite the opposite effect - I got a lot more ambitious when the first one arrived, and I've almost doubled my salary since then (a bit more than four years).

michaelt 12y ago
Sure, but if I double my salary and my wife drops out of the workforce to be a full-time parent, on average our income stays the same :)
- zurn 12y ago
  The WaPo article wasn't about the Mad Men universe though.
  - mithras 12y ago
    In europe this is still very common.
    - peterfirefly 12y ago
      Europe is a big place.
    - msh 12y ago
      I think you need to modify this to "in some part of" or even in "many parts of". Where I come from this is extremely uncommon.
    - zurn 12y ago
      Labour force participation rates by sex: USA: 70.2% for men, 57.7% for women. Europe (OECD countries): 79.7% for men, 62.6% for women. So it's more common in EU for women to work than their sisters in the US, but the gender difference in participation rates is also higher in Europe. Sources: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm and http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LFS_SEXAGE_I_R http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LFS_SEXAGE_I_R
  - davegardner 12y ago
    I don't think men and women would have equivalent salaries in the Mad Men universe.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- ido 12y ago
  For most people in the developed world that doesn't seem to usually be the case beyond the time the kids are very young though. At least here in Berlin it seems usual for kids to go to day care at the age of 1 year, at which point you can at least have 1 parent working full time and the other part time (or both full time).
  - danieldk 12y ago
    It's relatively hard to get a daycare spot for under 1 year. We were lucky to have a daycare in our apartment complex (Southern Germany) which takes kids from three months and up. In The Netherlands it's pretty normal to bring kids to daycare from 3 or 6 months. In the end, there is often a salary hit though. My wife started working less. Also, there is no extra time anymore - on working days, we always go home at 17:00 sharp.
    - ido 12y ago
      Yes, that's why I wrote 1 year and not 3 months :) That's still not that huge a portion of a typical ~40 years career (unless you have a lot of children - I think the average for western Europe is somewhere between 1 and 2 kids) and you'd get parental leave payments during that time. So sure it probably hurts your combined income but I think it's very rarely a 50% reduction as suggested by OP saying he needs to double his salary to stay at the same level.
- GFischer 12y ago
  I'm doing that, but my soon-to-be wife makes less than I do and her career growth was very limited, so our average income will go way up, and I think my experience is more typical (most couples have some kind of income inequality, with the man usually making more).
- geebee 12y ago
  Out here in SF it's no exaggeration to say full time day care runs $20k or more a year, so a single income X is probably worth considerably more than two incomes that sum to X (especially when X is high enough that tax credits for child care phase out).
davegardner 12y ago
My experience has been the opposite. I've taken a job working remotely from home in part so that I can be a bigger part of my children's day to day lives. I would probably be earning around 130-150% of my current salary if I'd stayed in my previous consulting job.
- fhd2 12y ago
  I've actually made the same decision, it's a ~80% remote position. But I got lucky, I ended up becoming lead developer. Can't say I'm completely happy with my hours, but I couldn't imagine not being home most of the time with small kids.
aikah 12y ago
ambition != taking risks . I bet you wouldn't take that much risk by switching careers for instance,because you have kids to feed.
- fhd2 12y ago
  Fair enough, I'm definitely taking less risks. But I'm also a lot more ambitious to improve as a programmer, and I ended up getting better jobs and moving up the ladder as a result of this. Taking risks is not exactly a sure fire route to success.

by fhd2 12y ago

michaelt 12y ago

Sure, but if I double my salary and my wife drops out of the workforce to be a full-time parent, on average our income stays the same :)

zurn 12y ago
The WaPo article wasn't about the Mad Men universe though.
- mithras 12y ago
  In europe this is still very common.
  - peterfirefly 12y ago
    Europe is a big place.
  - msh 12y ago
    I think you need to modify this to "in some part of" or even in "many parts of". Where I come from this is extremely uncommon.
  - zurn 12y ago
    Labour force participation rates by sex: USA: 70.2% for men, 57.7% for women. Europe (OECD countries): 79.7% for men, 62.6% for women. So it's more common in EU for women to work than their sisters in the US, but the gender difference in participation rates is also higher in Europe. Sources: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm and http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LFS_SEXAGE_I_R http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LFS_SEXAGE_I_R
- davegardner 12y ago
  I don't think men and women would have equivalent salaries in the Mad Men universe.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
ido 12y ago
For most people in the developed world that doesn't seem to usually be the case beyond the time the kids are very young though. At least here in Berlin it seems usual for kids to go to day care at the age of 1 year, at which point you can at least have 1 parent working full time and the other part time (or both full time).
- danieldk 12y ago
  It's relatively hard to get a daycare spot for under 1 year. We were lucky to have a daycare in our apartment complex (Southern Germany) which takes kids from three months and up. In The Netherlands it's pretty normal to bring kids to daycare from 3 or 6 months. In the end, there is often a salary hit though. My wife started working less. Also, there is no extra time anymore - on working days, we always go home at 17:00 sharp.
  - ido 12y ago
    Yes, that's why I wrote 1 year and not 3 months :) That's still not that huge a portion of a typical ~40 years career (unless you have a lot of children - I think the average for western Europe is somewhere between 1 and 2 kids) and you'd get parental leave payments during that time. So sure it probably hurts your combined income but I think it's very rarely a 50% reduction as suggested by OP saying he needs to double his salary to stay at the same level.
GFischer 12y ago
I'm doing that, but my soon-to-be wife makes less than I do and her career growth was very limited, so our average income will go way up, and I think my experience is more typical (most couples have some kind of income inequality, with the man usually making more).
geebee 12y ago
Out here in SF it's no exaggeration to say full time day care runs $20k or more a year, so a single income X is probably worth considerably more than two incomes that sum to X (especially when X is high enough that tax credits for child care phase out).

davegardner 12y ago

My experience has been the opposite. I've taken a job working remotely from home in part so that I can be a bigger part of my children's day to day lives. I would probably be earning around 130-150% of my current salary if I'd stayed in my previous consulting job.

fhd2 12y ago
I've actually made the same decision, it's a ~80% remote position. But I got lucky, I ended up becoming lead developer. Can't say I'm completely happy with my hours, but I couldn't imagine not being home most of the time with small kids.

aikah 12y ago

ambition != taking risks . I bet you wouldn't take that much risk by switching careers for instance,because you have kids to feed.

fhd2 12y ago
Fair enough, I'm definitely taking less risks. But I'm also a lot more ambitious to improve as a programmer, and I ended up getting better jobs and moving up the ladder as a result of this. Taking risks is not exactly a sure fire route to success.