4 ms·

Evan misses one very important component of evaluating an idea. What is the effect of mass liquidity on the value add. Is the value gained by the first user ide

by marcus 19y ago

Evan misses one very important component of evaluating an idea. What is the effect of mass liquidity on the value add. Is the value gained by the first user identical to the value of the millionth user. Google,Amazon - even if I was the only user in the world using them, would be just as useful for me. On the other side of the scale - eBay,Digg are totally useless if I am the only one using them.

deleted 19y ago
[deleted]
tptacek 19y ago
You mean "Network effect", don't you? I think he buries it in "Deepness".
- marcus 19y ago
  His quote: "practically any application, once people start using it, can be used as a lever to more activity and benefit delivery. Being smart about what you're leveraging is key." But my point is that some applications aren't viable at all without this critical mass and some are. While obviously everyone wants more users, for some ideas the critical mass requirement is a very high initial obstacle and for some it isn't.
  - tptacek 19y ago
    I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying there's a hoary old cliche that you can use to communicate the same thing: "He forgot to add Network Effects". Ebay relies on a network effect; Amazon doesn't. I don't imagine that he forgot it; I think he's assuming most web startups rely on it. He is, after all, Pyra, Odeo, and Twitter.
    - davidw 19y ago
      Uh, why are people voting this down? > some applications aren't viable at all without this critical mass and some are That is exactly what "network effects", or "positive network externalities" means, and they're critical to many, but not all, information goods.
maurycy 19y ago
Are you sure? I bet Google uses users' clicks to improve their searches, as well as Amazon's search, recommendation systems and used books heavily rely on crowd.
- marcus 19y ago
  First of all, Google doesn't use clicks to improve their searches, because they have no way of knowing on what you click, the links on the search page are direct to the websites that interest you and the JavaScript function (clk) doesn't send any info to GOOG. They do monitor AdWords clicks obviously and do a ton of optimizing on it, but that isn't where I get my value from. ( a possible exception is clicks to sites with Google AdSense where they can monitor both ends ). And I don't care what other people read, maybe its my weird taste in books, maybe it is my extreme individualism, but I really don't give a damn. I just want to be able to find a book and get it to my doorstep as soon as possible as cheaply as possible and as hassle free as possible. Most importantly the point wasn't the examples it that there are ideas that need very little users to be useful to their end users - think 37signals apps. And there are ideas that need a lot of people to have any effect.
  - pchristensen 19y ago
    When I search for "Hacker News" and do Copy Link Location on the url, I get this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2F&ei=jahmR4ziOI-EggKk95H_Dg&usg=AFQjCNGKJHXhsq1s0-gYR96B--m47G9oRw&sig2=1iVChPaHAN3aVZAmpM9nCA http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=h... I'm pretty sure Google knows what I'm clicking on.
    - marcus 19y ago
      You are not looking at organic search results. The link is for non-adwords sponsored links. (notice the colors are different ). This is a paid advertising option, so it obviously has to be tracked so they can price it correctly.
      - 19y ago

by marcus 19y ago

deleted 19y ago

[deleted]

tptacek 19y ago

You mean "Network effect", don't you? I think he buries it in "Deepness".

marcus 19y ago
His quote: "practically any application, once people start using it, can be used as a lever to more activity and benefit delivery. Being smart about what you're leveraging is key." But my point is that some applications aren't viable at all without this critical mass and some are. While obviously everyone wants more users, for some ideas the critical mass requirement is a very high initial obstacle and for some it isn't.
- tptacek 19y ago
  I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying there's a hoary old cliche that you can use to communicate the same thing: "He forgot to add Network Effects". Ebay relies on a network effect; Amazon doesn't. I don't imagine that he forgot it; I think he's assuming most web startups rely on it. He is, after all, Pyra, Odeo, and Twitter.
  - davidw 19y ago
    Uh, why are people voting this down? > some applications aren't viable at all without this critical mass and some are That is exactly what "network effects", or "positive network externalities" means, and they're critical to many, but not all, information goods.

maurycy 19y ago

Are you sure? I bet Google uses users' clicks to improve their searches, as well as Amazon's search, recommendation systems and used books heavily rely on crowd.

marcus 19y ago
First of all, Google doesn't use clicks to improve their searches, because they have no way of knowing on what you click, the links on the search page are direct to the websites that interest you and the JavaScript function (clk) doesn't send any info to GOOG. They do monitor AdWords clicks obviously and do a ton of optimizing on it, but that isn't where I get my value from. ( a possible exception is clicks to sites with Google AdSense where they can monitor both ends ). And I don't care what other people read, maybe its my weird taste in books, maybe it is my extreme individualism, but I really don't give a damn. I just want to be able to find a book and get it to my doorstep as soon as possible as cheaply as possible and as hassle free as possible. Most importantly the point wasn't the examples it that there are ideas that need very little users to be useful to their end users - think 37signals apps. And there are ideas that need a lot of people to have any effect.
- pchristensen 19y ago
  When I search for "Hacker News" and do Copy Link Location on the url, I get this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2F&ei=jahmR4ziOI-EggKk95H_Dg&usg=AFQjCNGKJHXhsq1s0-gYR96B--m47G9oRw&sig2=1iVChPaHAN3aVZAmpM9nCA http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=h... I'm pretty sure Google knows what I'm clicking on.
  - marcus 19y ago
    You are not looking at organic search results. The link is for non-adwords sponsored links. (notice the colors are different ). This is a paid advertising option, so it obviously has to be tracked so they can price it correctly.
    - 19y ago