6 ms·

Oddly enough I can't help but feel a bit sorry for the robot getting kicked back and forth there. I know you want to demonstrate how stable it is, but damn guys

Oddly enough I can't help but feel a bit sorry for the robot getting kicked back and forth there. I know you want to demonstrate how stable it is, but damn guys, no need to be so cruel!

alisnic 12y ago
it's a robot
- signa11 12y ago
  yes, and hopefully, 10 years down the line it is not merged with an ai which can take a dim view of it's predecessors being kicked around on some carbon based life form's whims and fancies (after watching it's genesis)
  - xxxyy 12y ago
    Except it is in the AI's interest to get kicked like that. This way the company that constructs robots can show how reliable they are, and as a result receive more funding. Our robot overlords will show this to their "children" during history classes. Or in other words: there is no reason to expect that AI will have irrational feelings similar to human feelings.
    - coldpie 12y ago
      I dunno, it's not too hard to imagine a scenario where the AI realizes being kicked is counter to its goals and decides to remove the aggressor. Especially when these things are used for combat, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Friend/foe indicator malfunctioning? Well, good luck.
      - yellowapple 12y ago
        I think in this context, it would be more equivalent to sparring than anything: a test of one's abilities. A sufficiently-intelligent AI would likely think the same should it watch videos of its predecessors being kicked during testing.
  - tomp 12y ago
    Oh, you optimist. Do you know about Roko's Basilisk?
- imr_ 12y ago
  ANNs have feelings as well ;)
- DanBC 12y ago
  ...that's the point. Some people have strong emotional reaction when they see this robot being kicked even though this is clearly, obviously, a robot. They haven't, as far as I know, built in any emotional engagement stuff. They could easily build in a few movements - robot pauses, cranes head towards human companion, makes noise, robot continues - which would freak a few people out. It's a pretty remarkable robot.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
TeMPOraL 12y ago
I agree, I feel the same way, and I felt that the previous time, when they were demonstrating stability of their Big Dog. Seeing this robot being kicked evokes in me feelings of anger directed toward the preson doing the kicking. It feels as if they're kicking a dog for absolutely no reason. These videos from Boston Dynamics highlights how little it takes for people to have strong emotions toward inanimate objects. This will be interesting to explore, though I'm not happy about more advertisers doing things like that stupid IKEA lamp ad which hijacked audience's feeling of compassion.
- saganus 12y ago
  Also, to add to your comment, I can imagine that designers will at least test the effect of "dressing" these robots with animal costumes so to speak. Imagine Spot with a dog costume, so it looks more like a dog. You could study different human reactions. For example, are soldiers more likely to trust their robot companions if they look closer to an animal? or maybe they will trust it more if it doesn't? Putting on an animal costume generates more, or does it generate less fear/terror on the enemy?, etc etc. And then this will in turn prompt, I'm guessing, the ability to conduct psychological studies about human response to animal cruelty for example, without actually harming an animal, as seen in this thread by a lot of people reporting being angry when the robot was kicked by the staff. Imagine a robot that behaves like a dog (a lot more than Aibo does), and you program it with "pain" responses, sound, etc. You could maybe even use that (just speculating here of course) as a metric for sociopathy/lack of empathy problems.
  - Gracana 12y ago
    I wonder if that would be an effective way to protect an unattended robot. If it quakes and whimpers when people touch it, or yelps and scrambles away when attacked, would people leave it alone? Obviously it wouldn't stop someone determined to cause harm, but it might get the desired response from someone who wants to look with their hands or mess with it for fun.
    - Crito 12y ago
michaelt 12y ago
Reminds me of http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/05/AR2007050501009.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05... the autonomous robot, 5 feet long and modeled on a stick- insect, strutted out for a live-fire test and worked beautifully, he says. Every time it found a mine, blew it up and lost a limb, it picked itself up and readjusted to move forward on its remaining legs, continuing to clear a path through the minefield. Finally it was down to one leg. Still, it pulled itself forward. Tilden was ecstatic. The machine was working splendidly. The human in command of the exercise, however -- an Army colonel -- blew a fuse. [...] This test, he charged, was inhumane.
- walterbell 12y ago
  Charles Stross, commenting on Saturn's Children, http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/07/crib-sheet-saturns-children.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/07/crib-she... "A society that runs on robot slaves who are, nevertheless, intelligent by virtue of having a human neural connectome for a brain, is a slave society: deeply unhealthy if not totally diseased. "
  - cfontes 12y ago
    Nevertheless I expect to see those BigDog like robots walking among us in the near future (10 years ?) as police/firefighters and other services. When things are this cost effective( no one dying in action) they are adopted very fast.
  - pyrois 12y ago
    I mean, absolutely, that would morally and, hopefully, legally wrong. Moreover, there are many ways to evaluate "intelligence", and it's not even clear that such criteria are the correct ways to judge whether a creature is a moral patient, a moral actor, or neither (for lack of better terms). All that said, I think it's fairly clear that Spot is just a dumb machine. Some of its descendants might be more, but we haven't gotten close to the "robot slave" point.
    - 12y ago
ajtaylor 12y ago
That's exactly what my wife said! Wildly exciting to watch either way though.
rndn 12y ago
Exactly, it's a disgusting attitude. IMHO, our future robots shouldn't be built by people without some sense for aesthetics.
pwelch 12y ago
Agreed!
GraffitiTim 12y ago
I felt the same way. I think the dynamic way it moves is what evokes the anthropomorphic feeling for me, more than its physical appearance. It has a lively bounce to its step. When it looks like it's struggling to catch its balance, that's literally what it's doing. Reminds me of some kind Disney or Pixar table or other inanimate object brought to life through movement.
smackfu 12y ago
At the end, I just imagined the robot dog running out into traffic.
wahsd 12y ago
Imagine a future where the artificial neural network decides that humans are unfit for life on this planet because that guy kicked the robot and the data about the event lived in perpetuity. Talk about long memory. It almost seems like an underestimated aspect of human nature, the value or role of atrophy of knowledge, lack of focus, and distraction from importance in our process of bumbling from one fuck-up to the next in the most convoluted path possible towards improved living circumstances.
endergen 12y ago
They should have used a large cartoon style boxing glove contraptions instead. Same demonstration, less dog cruelty looking: http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/165927334-boxing-glove-contraption-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=qCkqXA%2BvmZGlOY1lCdZKw0LJ2kd%2BthpGOg9e2zXTfWU%3D http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/165927334-boxing-glove-cont...

Oddly enough I can't help but feel a bit sorry for the robot getting kicked back and forth there. I know you want to demonstrate how stable it is, but damn guys, no need to be so cruel!

alisnic 12y ago

it's a robot

signa11 12y ago
yes, and hopefully, 10 years down the line it is not merged with an ai which can take a dim view of it's predecessors being kicked around on some carbon based life form's whims and fancies (after watching it's genesis)
- xxxyy 12y ago
  Except it is in the AI's interest to get kicked like that. This way the company that constructs robots can show how reliable they are, and as a result receive more funding. Our robot overlords will show this to their "children" during history classes. Or in other words: there is no reason to expect that AI will have irrational feelings similar to human feelings.
  - coldpie 12y ago
    I dunno, it's not too hard to imagine a scenario where the AI realizes being kicked is counter to its goals and decides to remove the aggressor. Especially when these things are used for combat, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Friend/foe indicator malfunctioning? Well, good luck.
    - yellowapple 12y ago
      I think in this context, it would be more equivalent to sparring than anything: a test of one's abilities. A sufficiently-intelligent AI would likely think the same should it watch videos of its predecessors being kicked during testing.
- tomp 12y ago
  Oh, you optimist. Do you know about Roko's Basilisk?
imr_ 12y ago
ANNs have feelings as well ;)
DanBC 12y ago
...that's the point. Some people have strong emotional reaction when they see this robot being kicked even though this is clearly, obviously, a robot. They haven't, as far as I know, built in any emotional engagement stuff. They could easily build in a few movements - robot pauses, cranes head towards human companion, makes noise, robot continues - which would freak a few people out. It's a pretty remarkable robot.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

TeMPOraL 12y ago

I agree, I feel the same way, and I felt that the previous time, when they were demonstrating stability of their Big Dog. Seeing this robot being kicked evokes in me feelings of anger directed toward the preson doing the kicking. It feels as if they're kicking a dog for absolutely no reason. These videos from Boston Dynamics highlights how little it takes for people to have strong emotions toward inanimate objects. This will be interesting to explore, though I'm not happy about more advertisers doing things like that stupid IKEA lamp ad which hijacked audience's feeling of compassion.

saganus 12y ago
Also, to add to your comment, I can imagine that designers will at least test the effect of "dressing" these robots with animal costumes so to speak. Imagine Spot with a dog costume, so it looks more like a dog. You could study different human reactions. For example, are soldiers more likely to trust their robot companions if they look closer to an animal? or maybe they will trust it more if it doesn't? Putting on an animal costume generates more, or does it generate less fear/terror on the enemy?, etc etc. And then this will in turn prompt, I'm guessing, the ability to conduct psychological studies about human response to animal cruelty for example, without actually harming an animal, as seen in this thread by a lot of people reporting being angry when the robot was kicked by the staff. Imagine a robot that behaves like a dog (a lot more than Aibo does), and you program it with "pain" responses, sound, etc. You could maybe even use that (just speculating here of course) as a metric for sociopathy/lack of empathy problems.
- Gracana 12y ago
  I wonder if that would be an effective way to protect an unattended robot. If it quakes and whimpers when people touch it, or yelps and scrambles away when attacked, would people leave it alone? Obviously it wouldn't stop someone determined to cause harm, but it might get the desired response from someone who wants to look with their hands or mess with it for fun.
  - Crito 12y ago

michaelt 12y ago

Reminds me of http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/05/AR2007050501009.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05... the autonomous robot, 5 feet long and modeled on a stick- insect, strutted out for a live-fire test and worked beautifully, he says. Every time it found a mine, blew it up and lost a limb, it picked itself up and readjusted to move forward on its remaining legs, continuing to clear a path through the minefield. Finally it was down to one leg. Still, it pulled itself forward. Tilden was ecstatic. The machine was working splendidly. The human in command of the exercise, however -- an Army colonel -- blew a fuse. [...] This test, he charged, was inhumane.

walterbell 12y ago
Charles Stross, commenting on Saturn's Children, http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/07/crib-sheet-saturns-children.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/07/crib-she... "A society that runs on robot slaves who are, nevertheless, intelligent by virtue of having a human neural connectome for a brain, is a slave society: deeply unhealthy if not totally diseased. "
- cfontes 12y ago
  Nevertheless I expect to see those BigDog like robots walking among us in the near future (10 years ?) as police/firefighters and other services. When things are this cost effective( no one dying in action) they are adopted very fast.
- pyrois 12y ago
  I mean, absolutely, that would morally and, hopefully, legally wrong. Moreover, there are many ways to evaluate "intelligence", and it's not even clear that such criteria are the correct ways to judge whether a creature is a moral patient, a moral actor, or neither (for lack of better terms). All that said, I think it's fairly clear that Spot is just a dumb machine. Some of its descendants might be more, but we haven't gotten close to the "robot slave" point.
  - 12y ago

ajtaylor 12y ago

That's exactly what my wife said! Wildly exciting to watch either way though.

rndn 12y ago

Exactly, it's a disgusting attitude. IMHO, our future robots shouldn't be built by people without some sense for aesthetics.

pwelch 12y ago

Agreed!

GraffitiTim 12y ago

I felt the same way. I think the dynamic way it moves is what evokes the anthropomorphic feeling for me, more than its physical appearance. It has a lively bounce to its step. When it looks like it's struggling to catch its balance, that's literally what it's doing. Reminds me of some kind Disney or Pixar table or other inanimate object brought to life through movement.

smackfu 12y ago

At the end, I just imagined the robot dog running out into traffic.

wahsd 12y ago

Imagine a future where the artificial neural network decides that humans are unfit for life on this planet because that guy kicked the robot and the data about the event lived in perpetuity. Talk about long memory. It almost seems like an underestimated aspect of human nature, the value or role of atrophy of knowledge, lack of focus, and distraction from importance in our process of bumbling from one fuck-up to the next in the most convoluted path possible towards improved living circumstances.

endergen 12y ago

They should have used a large cartoon style boxing glove contraptions instead. Same demonstration, less dog cruelty looking: http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/165927334-boxing-glove-contraption-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=qCkqXA%2BvmZGlOY1lCdZKw0LJ2kd%2BthpGOg9e2zXTfWU%3D http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/165927334-boxing-glove-cont...